Chapter Tactics is a 40k podcast which focuses on promoting better tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game. Today Val takes over the podcast and recruits 3 of the best Ork players in the world for a WAAGHtastic review of the new 8th edition codex. Perfect for the sneaky gits lookin’ to take the boyz in green to an event and steal some wins.
Show Notes:
- Want to check out the stats we talked about in the episode? Click on this link.
- Don’t forget to check out our new sponsor! Broken Egg Games, and Rum Runner Wargame Painting and Conversions.
- Click here for a link for information on downloading best coast pairings app where you can find lists for most of the events I mention.
- Check out the last episode of Chapter Tactics here. Or, click here for a link to a full archive of all of my episodes.
- Commercial music by Music by: www.bensound.com
- Intro by: Justin Mahar
Need help with a list idea? Got a rules question? Want to talk tactics? Then email me at…
frontlinegamingpeteypab@gmail.com
Please do not send an army list in a format such as Army Builder, send them in an easy to read, typed format. Thanks!
Relevant Ork Mathhammer(now with letters instead of numbers 😮 )
Durability: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378301255363330048/508883865205473299/unknown.png
Melee+Ranged damage: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378301255363330048/508886177458421760/unknown.png
Only ranged damage: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378301255363330048/508885187124527125/unknown.png
I assume the letter grading is for average damage per turn per point and average hits to kill per point, right?
It’s “how durable is this guy against x weapon compared to other guys in the list for his cost”. Same thing with damage with “against this target”.
Top 5% are S
The other top 5% are A
everything else is with 18% increments.
BTW, forgot to mention that the durability chart is with KFF because it’s an autotake
As far as the list is concerned, it has all daemons, admech, necrons, tyranids and some random stuff I put in from other factions
Great episode!
Based on Ben’s concept list, we would go with 2 battalions and 1 spearhead.
Got a couple of questions regarding this.
1. What would be the go-to choices for the HQ slots? I am looking at 2xWeirdboys a Warboss and maybe 2xBig Meks with KFF?
2. Why run the spearhead as snakebites specifically? I thought that the Mek Guns couldn’t benefit from any Kultur/Stratagems
3. I suppose that the Kommandos are there for objectives grabbing? So 3 smaller squads would be better than 2 larger squads?
4. Wouldn’t some sort of melee heavy hitter unit be helpful against knight equivalents? (e.g. Meganobz)
The monster hunter wording is different and will likely be clarified that it doesnt work it was me being hopeful. If not you throw the guns in any detach you like.
60 evil sunz shootas
10 traktor kannons
25 lootas
33 kommandos
40 grots
and HQs
I’m running 1 kff mek and a weird boy in bad moons
and 1 boss on bike with klaw and a weird boy in evil sunz. Fist of gork + the boss and the relic claw makes for very dead targets.
you have so much to answer heavy armor in this list the discussion of needing a heavy puncher is null. Picking your warlord and what traits is the thing I’m still trying to figure out. I have a few ideas though.
(Looks like my reply didnt post or this will be a double post.
Monster hunters wording is weird and it will likely be clarified it doesn’t work with mek guns, It just doesn’t target the gretchin unit which is why it MIGHT work. Similar to dark eldar benefiting from doom.
Oh well just throw them in any detach the list fleshed out is
25 lootas
30 bad moonz grots
1 kff big mek
1 weird boy
60 evil sunz shoota boyz
10 grots
15 kommandos
10 kommandos
7 kommandos
10 mek guns
1 warboss on bike
1 weirdboy
Mek Gunz are Grot units so no, it doesn’t work.
Isn’t the Mek gun unit comprised of 1 Mek Gun and 6 Grot crew? The Grot rule reads as if only Gretchin units fall under it.
They’re one model for rules purposes, and so count as one model with the Gretchin keyword
They can still be Snakebite Grots. I don’t think it says anywhere that Grots cannot benefit from Stratagems.
They can’t. The strat has to specifically say Grots can use it for it to work per the Grot rule.
*Strictly speaking* by the wording of the rules Snakebite Mek Gunz should benefit from the stratagem. Grots rule says “Ork Stratagems can only be used on these units if the Stratagem explicitly states so”, but the Snakebite stratagem is not ‘used on’ a friendly unit, it is used on an enemy vehicle. And Mek Gunz do explicitly have the Snakebite keyword (or whatever clan you make them).
The Grots rule doesn’t say they “can’t benefit from stratagems”, it says “stratagems can’t be used on” them. So I think that’s where a lot of the confusion on this particular point is coming from. My own interpretation is that they would get the +1 to wound based on the wording of the rules, although I am sceptical that that was the designers’ intent.
Another example: it seems like a unit of Mek Gunz (or kans, or grots) in a Freebooterz detachment could trigger the kultur and give everyone else +1 to hit if they wipe out a unit. They wouldn’t benefit from the +1 to hit if someone else wiped out a unit, but they could give the +1 to everyone else.
I get you but trust me, it doesn’t work on them.
Freebotaz Grots can trigger it for other units that aren’t Grots.
The language leaves some ambiguity I agree but you can take my word on those.
Very interesting discussion on the new codex, but I only got to listen to half of it.
Is there any chance of getting the latest episodes on Youtube quicker? I know you are working through the backlog, but having to wait weeks or months is annoying.
The only reason I ask is that the podcast player frequently crashes when I am listening to it. When you play it again, it doesn’t allow you to jump to where you were, so I either need to let it play in the background till it gets to where it crashed, or just give up and not finish the episode (which is what I do most of the time). It’s a shame, as I was really enjoying this one.
Hey Michael,
I had this issue for a while, and realised that if you download the episode, for which the link is on this page, you can start, stop and skip at your leisure! Now I always do this, even if I have a good connection or mobile signal.
BTW I really enjoy your blog and your batreps and articles on FLG. Keep up the good work!
Hey robtype0, thanks for the tip! And thanks for you kind comments, always nice to hear!
I was really looking into the new Forgeworld Necron construct as my answer to the knight heavy meta but amn with those Ork Tractor Weapons making a 625 point unit never see past turn 1…. So I think I will keep my money for now because $300+ for a shelf only model is tough to swallow.
Lol, how do the Traktor Kannons make the Necron vehicle not get past turn 1? They aren’t even remotely as good as people are making them out to be. They’re good, don’t get me wrong, but not even close to that good.
18 Traktas = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 6 failed saves = ~27 wounds dealt. So yeah, it dies on turn 1 to the Trakta army, although I don’t think that is actually a good army.
The traktor army gives away kill more and butchers bill really fast. And gets run over by hordes (Which are very common). You can’t spend 810 pts to kill 15 models (and that’s on a good day)
Yeah, I think all of the panic about Traktas is unwarranted. There are much, much better units in the codex and Lootas in particular fill the same role, but do a ton of other things better while also being more durable and more resistant to disruption. And while the Trakta will ruin a flyer’s day, so will a big unit of Lootas.
Exactly.
They’re a very good unit, great for filling Heavy Slots cheaply, good for holding obectives, great against Vehicles and Monsters that are -1 or more to hit but just mediocre against other things and bad against most Infantry.
Exactly. They suck big time vs. anything that isn’t a multi-wound model.
As I have been saying the Kustom Mega Kannon or Smasha Guns I think are actually better and more worrisome if taken en masse.
6 failed saves?
Sure, if it is a 5++ Knight not using Rotate Ion Shields but how often do we see that? But if you are facing an army of 18 Traktor Kannons you most certainly will take the 4++ and will rotate ion shields.
Also, how do you get 27 wounds dealt? It’s an average of 21. You only roll two take the highest if the target has the Fly keyword.
However, yeah, it’s a super overrated unit. They’re good, I have a LOT of reps in with them, but they’re not that good. Lootas are just better IME.
That is not against a Knight, that is against the new Necron walker.
Ah, I thought the “melta” effect was against any vehicle, not just those with Fly. In that case you’re looking at more like ~24 damage dealt.
Oh, yeah, the Cron Walker. I don’t remember all of his stats off of the top of my head.
But yeah, the melta effect is only against Vehicles with Fly. And minor nitpick, the average damage of six D6 damage wounds is actually 21, not 24. But, relatively minor point.
And again, compare that to a Kustom Mega Kannon which will almost assuredly destroy a heavy vehicle with less models.
I was assuming that you reroll one of the damage dice with a CP, which admittedly is a little complicated to calculate, but averages you out to a net improvement of ~2.5, hence an overall 23.5 (rounded to 24.) But I suppose I didn’t actually say that, so it feels a little bit backtrack-y.
Yeah, all good. It’s a minor quibble.
48″ St 8 -2AP D6 damage auto hitting guns 🙂
They are cheap (45 points! But that real $ tho) snake bites strat make them wound on 3s. You can get up to 18 of the buggers. Any large unit without a good invulnerable will be hard pressed to see a second turn on the table.
They can’t use the strats unless the strat applies to Grots.
I thought it would work like the Yannari still has clan name so strats apply just not the kultur(chapter tactic).
If I was wrong then maybe it could live past one turn I will re do the math and see.
So if they can not use the strat then they will do on average 24 damage with one reroll used.
You will have 1,190 points left over to do 4 wounds.
Not bad for a distraction fex. So I take back my one turn and done. I will do a few proxy games and see if it can find a place.
You’d be better off with a Bobby G Gunline honestly, if the idea is to smoke a big thing in one round of shooting. Plus, if you go second, a lot of those guns are going to get silenced before firing, etc.
These kinds of exercises though don’t always hold water because how do you get 18 Traktor Kannons + their 5 Grot crew in range and LoS of a single model, etc. It doesn’t often work out in practice the way it does in the vacuum of math-hammer.
True on that vacuum mathammer can kill really good units that just need to see play to show what they can really good.
Are there anyway you know about getting true dimensions of the Seraptek Heavy Construct I would like to see how well it could stay out of line of sight and such on boards?
Unfortunately I don’t know how big it actually is. I don’t think I’ve seen a scale picture either, sorry.
Did you discuss the new Speed Freeks vehicles? I was listening while driving, may have missed it if you did. Most didn’t seem all that impressive, but the Dragsta seemed pretty good (and I’m a little jealous of the effective BS3+ main gun as a Tau player lol).
Skimming through the Ork codex, a few things caught my eye. Firstly, everyone’s hype about the Tractor Kannons autohitting, but they’re Heavy 1 whereas their competition has d6 shots or so while boasting a better statline versus non-fliers. Haven’t seen the costs so that might be their big advantage, but they seem a mite overhyped at the moment.
Second, why Meganobz over Nobz? Now that Nobz can pack double Killsaws, their offensive output is identical to Meganobz while being a fair bit cheaper, so they seem preferable if you want to DS several units for target overload. They’re a hell of a lot frailer but dedicated firepower will bring Meganobz down as well, so a kamikaze charge seems viable. And if I read it correctly, the Ork fight twice stratagem doesn’t trigger at the end of the fight phase like every other version but instead whenever, so they don’t have to take a round of attacks before fighting again.
And lastly, any considerations for a Dread Mob? Deff dreads’ melee got a mite worse (since they can’t take 4x klaws anymore) but they can take quad guns and got a hell of a lot cheaper. Killa Kanz also got a bit better. Don’t think it’ll sweep the meta, but might be worth a look.
Great listen!
Buggies, the majority of the panel agreed to skip em and be done with it. The one worth looking at is The boomdakka snazz wagon. It carries a natural -1 to hit ontop of a decent amount of dakka
Lots if talk on how best to nobs. For transports they are likely The way to go even with just double choppas. Deep strike you can have megas charge most overwatch fearlessly. I wouldnt do that with regular nobs. They definitely got a big boost in the book.
Boomdakka’s damage outpout is terrible for its cost tho.
For trukks, I’m definitely leaning towards Nobz over Boyz. They’re cheap enough now that you can afford to put them in a fragile transport while still hitting hard enough to do some real damage with only 12 models. Full Nobz mob in a trukk is only like 215 points or so, you could take a few different units.
I actually really like the idea of snikrot and kommandos as a separate detachment. Snikrot is nuts for his points cost, I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about him as he seems almost an auto take he’s so cheap. Nice platoon of guardsmen you’ve got in that building there…be a real shame if something happened to them.
You could throw in a weirdboy as the second HQ choice and give him the blood axe relic so he gets a warlord trait, and pick the one that lets you redeploy, which I think is a really good ability.
Yeah, and Nobz can take two ammo runts as well to soak up some of the damage if the Trukk gets destroyed.
Mek Gunz give up kill more and Butcher in ITC. They are real bad for actually winning the game.
most ork builds just bleed secondaries. Honestly you just accept that they will score 10-12 between reaper, marked for death, head hunter, butchers bill etc.
Kill more however is definitely the problem worth talking about. thankfully you’re orks and map control + bonus can be easy to come by. Orks also snowball well and when you get a solid 2 turns a tabling is around the corner.
That’s only 1 part of the problem. The other is that it autoloses against hordes. 850pts puting out 18 shots is TERRIBLE. Imagine going up against chaos, nids or heck, just a mirror match with lootas instead of traktors. RIP.
Guy going to”THE Renegade”. Look for the golden knights with Ghosts. IMO, He is “ROOT” will win “The Renegade” with Orks!, as he should.