Jason S. relates his GT winning performance with an all Ultramarines army featuring no allies. Read on to learn more!
See the full event results, here.
What is your name?
- Jason Sniegowski
Do you have a name you use online?
- No
What event did you win?
- Buckeye Battles, a fantasy and 40k tournament held in Delaware Ohio since 2006. This year was held on July 7th and 8th. This event has been headed up by Joe Elverson and Allen Blount of the Buckey Battles team for around 6 years now. The army makeup (or composition) is a 2200 point list with 5 rounds across two days. Total attendance was just under 50 players having some last minute cancellations . Buckeye battles has some unique missions and challenges, including blind deployment for round 1 ( giant cardboard blinds at mid field to block vision on deployment).
What was in your list?
- The list I ran was Ultramarines, one battalion detachment, and one aux. LOW detachment.
- Hq – Tigerius
- Hq – Tech Marine
- Tr – Bolter Scouts (x3 units)
- El – Primaris Ancient
- El – Primaris Apothecary
- Hv – 7 Hellblasters
- Transport – Repulsor
- Transport – Repulsor
- Fly – Fire Raptor
- Aux low – Papa Smurf
What worked in your list?
- The list worked amazingly against any opponent relying on ground presence with infantry or light units. The synergy between G-man the repulsor and the fire raptor was quite impressive to watch.
What didn’t work in your list?
- I think I would switch one or two of the heavy bolters on the repulsor out for las cannons the list struggled to produce great results against vehicles and more specifically knights.
What match-ups is your list strong against?
- I have strong wins against a death guard list, plague burst, and fidget spinners, two eldar/ deldar matchups,soft vehicles and mass foot troops. Any horde foot unit based lists would be a great match-up for this list.
What match-ups is your list weak against?
- This list struggled against the knight / admech (stygies) list I played. The negatives to hit reduced the overall effectiveness along with the toughness 8 knights turning most of my units and shots to only wounding on 5s if not 6s.
If you plan on changing anything, what would it be?
- I will be working on the specifics of this list for events in the future, the first major change will be to bring it back down to 2200 points, the second will be figuring out if I can find a way and a balance to put las cannons on the repulsors.
What do you all think about this list?And remember, Frontline Gaming sells gaming products at a discount, every day in their webcart!
While 8th leads some things to be desired, one thing I love is that once 90% of the books have been released, it seems we keep seeing different armies in the top 8 at tourneys and a dark horse wins a GT every month or so.
I thought Gulliman lists were dead when he got points-adjusted and DE came out. Not sure if he had to face DE but he took on Ad Mech/Knights and squeaked it out.
His points are fair now, IMO and we’re still seeing lists with Repulsors, Hellblasters, flyers and Bobby G + whatever else kick some ass. They did very well at ATC, too.
My issue though is now that Issodon doesn’t really function they way he did Marines have boiled down to largely Bobby G lists which is a little frustrating. I am sure there are other functional lists in the book but what we keep seeing is the above pattern.
However, like you said, 8th has a tremendous amount of variety compared to other editions which is awesome, I agree.
Is it possible to play pure marines (or pure Ultramarines) without Roboute? It seems like as soon as you pick Ultramarines, you’re forced to take him, which isn’t cool (and I’m an UM player).
Honestly the whole codex feels so weak without Guilliman, and even with him it’s so rare to see a marine list do well in tournaments dominated by Dark Eldar, Guard, and Chaos.
Overall, as a marine player, I’m happy for this guy, but I’m unhappy about 8th as a whole. Variety in lists doesn’t mean much to me if I’m forced to take Guilliman to be viable at a competitive level.
I think you can get by without him but it is a bit of a disadvantage. A Captain/Calgar + Lt. gives you a lot of the same utility for less points.
Reecius, what do you think spacemarines need to be competitive in the current meta? I personally think tacticals, terminators and bikes need to be a bit more resilient, and some help to bolt weapons, like a modifier on 6’s to wound. Make them worth there points. I’m curious to see what happens with the wolves codex, well a marine codex be in the top meta???
BA and DW appear to be doing fine. It’s vanilla SM and GK that are in dire straits.
Vanilla Marines aren’t in dire straights at all, they’re quite good but almost all of the tournament caliber lists revolve around Bobby G.
People are winning with Pure Marines as in the cast of this article, haha. But, I’ve yet to see a Marine list that didn’t have Bobby G in it winning now that Issodon has been dialed back so much in efficacy due to the changes in reserves.
You mean BA scouts and captains are doing fine. The rest of the codex is trash atm. Thanks, FAQ.
Well, that’s a bit pessimistic. The other units are still quite good you just have to delay a turn to use them form reserves. The FAQ limited them for sure but calling them trash is definitely hyperbole.
Going mono faction with all marine books is very mediocre now imo. On the other side as a BA player i don’t think the faq hit us that much. Delayed drop as you stated is usually better anyways.
Once all books are out i hope they take a serious look at all power armor factions. Imperial and Chaos favor allies a bit to much at the moment.
Death company and sanguinary guard are both way too expensive given the insane firepower xenos ans ig sling. And now they get a free turn of shooting. Glorious.
Marines have a few really awesome units available to them that carry the dex but a lot of units that struggle a bit as you noted. But yeah, they can and do win as evidenced in this very article.
IMO, it depends your objective :
if you play for play (fun, casual or sometimes), you can play anything.
if you play competitive, it’s harder without “daddy G” but not impossible (ex : RG with Issodon approved by Reecius if i have good memory ^^).
For this list, i love because they are few models for a lot of firepower (i prefer play than paint :-p).
Always IMO, i keep heavy bolters on repulsors otherwise the price explodes.
To balance versus mechanics lists (and back on 2000pts), i switch fireraptor for
xiphon interceptor (i play this thing in my thousand sons lists and it works well vs vehicules, flyers and monsters).
Yeah, my Issodon army was really good but the changes to reserves made it much more difficult to play well. It still works but if you go second now you have to weather two rounds of shooting before delivering your big punch which in a tournament is probably not doable over 6+ games.
There are almost no power armor units in this list. It’s got the hellblaster gimmick and the rest is based off expensive vehicles buffed by an expensive character. That basically summarizes the current state of marines, imo.
I disagree. Infantry armies are very good for Marines. They have some awesome units in Scouts, Sniper Scouts and especially Devastators. With the FAQ allowing them to use their Mortal Wound strat on both shots with the Cherub, you can do stupid amounts of damage on top of their already impressive damage output. That plus the Banner makes them extremely efficient. The Thundefire Cannon is also fantastic, a game winning unit when it’s strat is useful. I get the most mileage out of my infantry units when I play, they’re very good. Some of the units under-perform for sure but all of them can be good.
I think it is cool to see a vehicle based list doing well as many people felt the Repulsor was “trash” as you described it but here they are helping to win a GT. People write things off too quickly, IMO.
Repulsors ARE trash, regardless of this result. Their cost is absolutely nuts for something with no invuln.
And as my battles against drukhari have shown, marine infantry is awful in 8th. Dissy cannons make a mockery of all things blood angel. Welcome to 8th post faq.
OK….huh? A gentleman just won a tournament with Repulsors and we saw them doing very well at ATC, too.
So I don’t know what to tell you, lol. People are winning competitive games with them and yet you think they are still bad. I have won many, many games in a competitive setting with my Infantry Marine army, all of which is documented. So yeah, if reality doesn’t sway your opinion on that fact that then I certainly won’t waste any more time trying, haha.
I’m consistently crippled by turn 3 using marine infantry lists. And that’s with a fnp banner. All my primaris is shelved due to the profileration of multi-damage weapons with high rof. Sanguinary guard are next to be shelved. The devastator stat trick is cute, but these squads are easily eliminated by anyone who cares.
Reecius Can you build a power armour space marine list that can bet your imperial guard list? Scouts are good for board control deployment, then they die! Kill team have guardsmen at 5 points per model now maybe that change well see light in 40k. My biggest whine with spacemarines, is why are terminators so bad, between gamesworkshop and forgeworld, how many different terminators kits is there, must be at the very least 20? Buff them tell they are over powered and then dial them back!!! Lol
Yeah, my Space Marine list can beat my AM list for sure. They actually have really good tools for it as they deal a lot of Mortal Wounds to deal with the Bullgryn and have tons of shots to plow through the infantry. It would be a tough fight though, no doubt.
But I agree, Terminators need a boost. I was thinking a 3rd wound or something would go a long way.
Yeah 3 wounds and give them there relentless rule back. Cyclones, heavy flamers, and chain fists need a price cut. But Deathwatch terminators as are with three wounds would be competitive!? Maybe an extra attack and weapon skill boost if I’m being greedy. Terminators should be feared.
I agree. I of the opinion that pretty much all marines should go up a wound and an attack just across the board to make them more aligned with their backstory but I do not know if that is something that is likely to occur or not. It would make them all very appealing though, IMO and they would feel more elite.
Bikes would become solid, black knights would be amazing. Would you give tacticals and primaris an extra wound?
Yeah. This is all wishlisty stuff of course but just playing it out in my mind, if all Marines across the board got +1 wound and attack, they’d truly be elite and would overcome a lot of the things that hold them back at present.
I think the problem is the impact from vanilla marines to non vanilla. I think death watch are pretty good and your would make them better. Thousands sons and deathwatch might be too good. Also one of my army Necrons are pointed for balance it would seem against marines so changes to marines could and should impact them too.
Deathguard would become too good maybe
I run similar looking lists, at 2k typically I have 10 Hellblasters, a Sicaran Venator and 2 Repulsors. Techmarines are useful and cheap, and I bring in small troop units. I typically win 3/4 out of 5 games at tournament level.
Reece – I appreciate all you do for the hobby at the moment, and you guys have enriched the community significantly over the years, but I disagree with your opinion on Marines being fine.
Currently, the Marine codex is potentially the worst of all the books. Lots of units are downright unplayable – Centurions are priced out of the game for example, other units aren’t worth considering as their damage output is weak or they suffer in other ways.
The stratagems and psychic powers are poor also, and beyond a few builds the book does’t function. Why does a single Centurion cost more than a Dreadnought? Why does an upgraded Repulsor cost as much as a Knight Gallant? Why do Marines cost more than Scions – a troop unit with better offence and the ability to arrive anywhere from reserves? When I face Dark Eldar I’m left speechless at the sheer quantity of high quality units they put down on the table.
Sweeping changes are needed, or the book needs to see huge point reductions across the board.
You’re not alone in disagreeing with me on that one, it’s all good. I go off of my personal experiences which–and I say this with no ego at all as I KNOW I am not the best 40k player in the world like Frankie, lol–but I have never had a game where I was just outclassed with my Marines.
Like I said, many of my competitive games with them are documented and I won most of them with pure Marines or with a Culexus added in. And as we see here, they just won a GT.
I agree the psychic powers, while useful, are not amazing like Eldar powers. I 100% disagree about the strats though. Space Marine strats are so damn good. They’re not flashy like some other books but man they are amazing when you know how to use them. They truly are fantastic, IMO. You just have to build a list to use them.
No argument from me that some of the units are too expensive, though. Unplayable is hyperbole but I get your drift.
imo, your comments are interesting but the most important element, from this game, is absent :
a game incorporate 2 armies and 2 PLAYERS (with different levels and exp)!!!
Units can do strategic moves, shots and charges because they have players behind!
so the most important element is the player :
no player ==> no game ==> no “space marines is better or bad” 😉
For me, “i don’t know use an unit then i talk without experiences (hello mister non sense ^^)” is very different than “i don’t know use an unit then i play and i learn”.
i close my opinion on this question :
how can you counter a real fact with a subjective opinion and no explications (on how can you conclude that)?
Skill level matters, but the most skilled players are not flocking to spacemarines. They may incorporate some of the best spacemarine units, like the blood angels smash captains. But armys at there core, base point cost must be balanced. There’s a reason most imperial armys take guardsmens as there core troop choice, they are to cheap!
yes and the most skilled players guide their choices according to their game experiences (and certainly more).
i notice one thing with tournament players who come and comments subjects :
they never say a flat “it’s garbage”.
they give their opinions and respect others.
well for my case, this article pushes me to test represssors because i never play before 😀
ty reecius and others, it’s very interesting^^
do this list work in smaller games? like 1500 / 2000? or maybe cut down the Raptor / Bobby G to add some Astra Militarum?
i saw a bunch of lists with AM + Vanilla SM
good idea but how can you keep the synergie with Booby, repressors and hellblasters without Bobby? 😀