We’ve got a great game tonight for you on Twitch! iNcontroL’s Tyranids vs. Reecius’ Biel-Tan! Tune in tonight at 5pm PST to our Twitch Channel to join in on the fun. Here are our lists!
Kronos BRIGADE:
- HQ: Swarmlord 300
- HQ: Malanthrope 90
- HQ: NeurothropeRED 70
- HQ: NeurothropeYEL 70
- HQ: Broodlord 162 (Ymgarl Relic)
- Troop: Rippers x 3: 33
- Troop: Rippers x 3: 33
- Troop: Rippers x 3: 33
- Troop: Rippers x 3: 33
- Troop: Hormagaunts x 19 (adrenal) 114
- Troop: Genestealers x 19: (Rending, 3x Maw) 228
- Fast: Mucloid 20
- Fast: Mucloid 20
- Fast: Mucloid 20
- Heavy: Biovores x 3: 108
- Heavy: Biovores x 3: 108
- Heavy: T-Fexx 214 (acid spray, stinger salvo, powerful limbs)
- Elite: Hiveguard x 3: 144
- Elite: Hiveguard x 3: 144
- Elite: Lictor 45
Total: 1989
| Unit | Force Org | Cost | # | Total | Weapons | Cost | # | Total | Total | Notes |
| Biel-Tan Brigade | Eldar | Command Points | 9 | 925 | ||||||
| Asurmen | HQ | 175 | 1 | 175 | 0 | |||||
| Avatar | HQ | 250 | 1 | 250 | 0 | |||||
| Farseer | HQ | 100 | 1 | 100 | 0 | Natural Leader | ||||
| Warlock | HQ | 35 | 1 | 35 | 0 | Spirit Stone | ||||
| Spiritseer | HQ | 45 | 1 | 45 | 0 | |||||
| Dire Avengers | Troops | 8 | 5 | 40 | Shuriken Catapult | 4 | 6 | 24 | ||
| Dire Avengers | Troops | 8 | 5 | 40 | Shuriken Catapult | 4 | 6 | 24 | ||
| Dire Avengers | Troops | 8 | 5 | 40 | Shuriken Catapult | 4 | 6 | 24 | ||
| Dire Avengers | Troops | 8 | 5 | 40 | Shuriken Catapult | 4 | 6 | 24 | ||
| Dire Avengers | Troops | 8 | 5 | 40 | Shuriken Catapult | 4 | 6 | 24 | ||
| Storm Guardians | Troops | 7 | 12 | 84 | 0 | |||||
| Swooping Hawks | Fast | 6 | 5 | 30 | Lasblaster | 7 | 4 | 28 | ||
| 0 | Hawk’s Talon | 10 | 1 | 10 | ||||||
| Warp Spiders | Fast | 10 | 5 | 50 | Death Spinners | 8 | 6 | 48 | ||
| Shining Spears | Fast | 18 | 3 | 54 | Twin Shuriken Catapult | 5 | 3 | 15 | ||
| 0 | Laser Lance | 8 | 2 | 16 | ||||||
| 0 | Star Lance | 10 | 1 | 10 | ||||||
| Howling Banshees | Elite | 9 | 10 | 90 | Power Sword | 4 | 9 | 36 | ||
| 0 | Executioner | 7 | 1 | 7 | ||||||
| Striking Scorpions | Elite | 13 | 5 | 65 | Scorpion Chainsword | 1 | 5 | 5 | ||
| 0 | Scorpion’s Claw | 12 | 1 | 12 | ||||||
| Fire Dragons | Elite | 7 | 6 | 42 | Fusion Gun | 17 | 6 | 102 | ||
| Dark Reapers | Heavy | 5 | 7 | 35 | Reaper Launcher | 22 | 6 | 132 | ||
| 0 | Aeldari Missile Launcher | 25 | 1 | 25 | ||||||
| Support Weapon | Heavy | 30 | 1 | 30 | Shadow Weaver | 25 | 1 | 25 | ||
| Wraithlord | Heavy | 103 | 1 | 103 | Shuriken Cannon | 10 | 2 | 20 | ||
| Totals | 85 | 1388 | 611 | 1999 | ||||||
| Command Points: | 12 | Detachments: | 1 |
Looking forward to this one.
I can’t wait to see all them rippers haha
Was good to see those rippers take down a dire avenger. I can rest easy now.
Thanks for the game guys, was a nice tight tactical game.
What Hive Fleet?
Kronos.
Reece, you can’t be upset about people using RAW.
You guys keep saying: this is not what the rule means, not as intended, etc
Why not just release an ITC FAQ that you can update whenever something like this happens?
This wound save a lot of time TO-ing, as if you get a question, you can say – look up the ITC FAQ.
We did this with the INAT FAQ, mostly used by Adepticon back in the day. Starting and maintaining your own FAQ comes with its own challenges. Both from within the group doing it with the time required and from without from the community itself and perceptions that you are “changing the game” from what “GW intended”.
I can’t recall the number of times while judging at Adepticon that questions would be asked which were already covered in our FAQ. People don’t always read or always remember. Even GW’s own FAQ isn’t entirely known. One look at various forums like Dakka and you can see how often assumptions are made or questions are asked about things covered by current GW FAQ. It didn’t feel like it saved time. Most people simply can’t remember all the FAQ from all the armies they might face in a large event.
Add to that, when its your own event FAQ and not GW official, some people even want to argue with your call at the table. I was told once “You don’t even know what the INAT FAQ guys intended with that ruling.” I turned the FAQ to the front page where it listed all of our names and then pointed to my name badge and told them I was quite sure I know exactly what I meant when I wrote this. My point being, even putting it out there ahead of time still draws arguments. And now they are ones you have o personally defend because you made the rule.
In short, its not as easy as simply making your own FAQ and telling everyone “go by this end of discussion”. Because they wont if it changes the way they feel their army is “supposed” to play.
You know what you do to people who argue with your judgement if you’re a TO? You throw them out.
It is absolutely not that simple and jumping straight to that kind of action is not how you deescalate a situation.
I’d handle it like this:
A: this is how it works
B: No! You are “changing the game” from what “GW
intended”.
A: Well you either play it this way or you will be DQd. Next time read the FAQ that we made.
For those of us who missed the stream, care to give some context?
RAW v RAI on Heroic Intervention.
Won’t get into it here since this is not the location for it. But you can catch the viewpoints on twitch still. The videos are posted on there. Skip to about the last 20 minutes of the stream and you can see what sparked the discussion.
Because they are, rightfully, in a rough spot with making rules adjustments.
They can argue GW didn’t intend things, but they’re also not GWs “Arm” to enforce the rules.
If they start making changes GW doesn’t sanction, even small things as they do now like not allowing sieze to be rerolled, etc, people get pretty angry with them.
Their relationship with GW has grown more and more complicated and people tend to pick up on this, so they’re more so damned if they do damned if they don’t as a result, and I think them being conservative about changes, as they are, is the smart move business wise.
After watching the interaction on Stream, not the best optics. Was a little aggressive and uncomfortable to watch as a viewer.
They literally ask GW for an answer. And it’d be ITC faq. Not 40k faq
Except GW /literally/ just FAQd it today to say Geoff was right.
One year at Adepticon, Phil Kelly himself was there. We asked him a question about how a certain rulewas meant to be played the Eldar Codex he himself wrote. He asked us our interpretation and we explained it to him. He said sounds good to me!
Two weeks later GW FAQ’d the opposite ruling.
Doing anything on your own, even with having asked GW doesn’t make it “gospel” until they FAQ it themselves.
Oh man that Phil Collins joke hahahaha.
Fun game!
So, yeah, you guys are right. And we did play it RAW, despite me being salty, lol. Remember, Geoff is like my brother, and like brothers, when we play it is a salt mine, lol. But, we’re having fun, always a great game.
But yes, RAW, Geoff is right, and that is how it should be played despite me perhaps having insight into the intent. Regardless, you should play by the rules or as you all noted (and what we did), we should make an alteration for our events so it is the new rule (which we do not plan on doing).
Thanks for joining us though, was a fun stream!
I understand that with your position with GW you’re not a fan of keeping an FAQ like in 7th, which makes sense as GW is doing a much better job now than they have in the past with FAQs. But is there any way to get rules questions to GW other than to post it on their FB page? Do you and Frankie ever pass rules questions on to the GW faq team post-playtesting? Understand if you’re not allowed to answer that. 😛 Instead of having an ITC faq like in the past, could there be a google form for rules questions that the ITC then passes on to the FAQ team, or better yet a google form set up by the GW team themselves? Just because this issue has made it through multiple FAQs without being touched on, I wonder if they simply were unaware of it. Its easy to say “if they didnt change it that’s how they meant it!” as a justification for the RAW answer here, so perhaps a better way to pass rules questions to the FAQ team would be helpful.
But for the rest of us, its often hard to distinguish RAW from RAI since we lack your insight, and the vast majority of us aren’t playing against playtesters. I’m sure it just felt weird for Geoff that he would play a rule one way for tournaments, and then another way against a playtester.
Yeah, I should have not said anything and let it ride, but we were in an intense game. They actually just did FAQ it and did go RAW to my joy, lol. But yes, we do pass things up the line and yes, we do keep an eye on rules questions.
You do have to play RAW in a matched play game where there are no other solutions or ask the judge. In a tournament, Geoff would have been in the right and we indeed did play it RAW.
Alright good to know thanks. And I know just how intense a close game with Geoff can be! xD
That’s true, you do! lol
Oh, and I totally forgot to use the Shining Spears in my list, lol. Doh!
Hmm why did you guys took the Video off of twitch? I love watching those full games while hobbying…
Reece is there gonna be VOD? I only managed to catch the end and I am very interested in seeing Geoffs deployment and some of the first couple of turns of movement he made.
Q: Can Characters only perform a
Heroic Intervention against enemy units
that charged this turn, or can they do so
against any enemy unit?
A: They can do so against any enemy unit.
Note that they can only do so if they end up closer
to the nearest enemy model, whether it charged
this turn or not.
From todays Designer Commentary, doesn’t this prove Geoff was right? Or did i misinterpret the situation?
He is 100% right and I was wrong. They went with the RAW.
10 pts to play with eldar. Cmon man 2 singing spears for warlock and farseer, done and 1999.
my bad just looked closer. my bad
Did the Twitch video get deleted?
I wanted to watch but can’t find it.
I did delete it because for one, Geoff and I were cussing like sailors, and for two, I argued a rule wrong and I didn’t want to have people see it and get confused as to how to play it.
Wow, Reece’s list was really solid compared to Geoffs, imo.
So, with the power of the observer and hindsight, here are the major mistakes Geoff did:
Started from the beginning by deploying the Tfex too close to a ruin wall without bubblewrap, so it could be neutralized each turn by units charging through the wall out of LOS – no overwatch.
First psychic phase, casting Catalyst on the Swarmlord instead of the Genestealers, in spite of the massive amount of anti-infantry fire Reece has. And then denying the -1 invo save spell instead of Doom, which led to 18 out 19 stealers dead. If you want to save Genestealers, always stop Doom.
During the game, basically not understanding how cc works in 8th ed, evident by constantly underestimating how much ground Pile In and Consolidate covers. He should’ve just Fall Back with the T-fex the first time, and set it up in a more safe place behind his lines instead of keeping it as the obvious Pile In target in the front. As a consequence, it never got to shoot until turn 5.
Turn 4 forgetting to move psykers to Smite away the single model keeping T-fex from shooting.
Then forgetting to consolidate 6” with his Hormagaunts and surround the surviving Dire Avenger model, which would’ve prevented them from being shot next in Reece’s turn. This lead to 12 dead Hormagaunts just from shooting. And instead of having a 16 Fearless body roadblock he had 4 in the open which served as a springboard for the Avatar and Dire Avengers.
Good game though, this is more in line with how we play 40K.
So nice having keyboard warriors in here to make a giant post about mistakes you make with some real gems like “not understanding CC in 8th” Thanks man! Missed you at NOVA where I’m sure you would have gone way better than 5-1 with a CC list!
They just don’t understand. Basically they can’t handle the 9 million IQ plays.
I swear someone is going to read this post and mistake it for epic salt instead of just how you act all the time. Was a little light on the condescension I’ve come to expect when you read dumb comments on stream.
😉