The following comes from the Warhammer-community page.
Today we take a look at how vehicles work in the new Warhammer 40,000.
The best way to show you some of the changes is with an example. Because we haven’t really seen anything from the Necron dynasties yet, we’re going to look at the Annihilation Barge, staple fire-support gun platform of the undying legions:
So this thing looks VERY different in the new Warhammer 40,000.
For a start, it’s using the same stats as everyone else, so armour values on the various facings are out, and instead, we have Toughness, Wounds and an Armour Save, making it more comparable in durability to other large monsters and massive beasts of the Warhammer 40,000 universe.
Also, it’s got Attacks and Strength! So it can fight (albeit inexpertly) in combat. This represents it literally ramming or smashing into enemy units.
Some dedicated combat vehicles (commonly what used to be Walkers), will have melee weapons too, like the classic Dreadnought power fist, but most vehicles will need to make do with crushing enemies under tracks or crumpling them beneath anti-gravitic engines. Generally, these attacks will have a poor to hit roll (5+ or 6+) but high strength – because if a Land Raider runs you over, you’ll feel it. There are exceptions of course – Ork vehicles can be kitted out with some pretty deadly close combat options, which now function just like any other specialist close combat weapon: get hit by a Deathroller, for example, and prepare to be a pancake.
Vehicles will be affected by all the other new rules we’ve talked about too, so they will be able to move as any other model would, including advancing. They shoot just like everyone else does, including (with a few exceptions) -1 to hit with heavy weapons if they move. They can even charge! which effectively replaces the Tank Shock rules, except ANY vehicle can do it and they then fight just like any other unit in the Fight phase.
Generally, you’ll find that vehicles still fill the same roles in your army as they always have, but without so many exceptions to the core rules of the game. You’ll find them to be very durable, probably more so than they are today, and best used in coordination with infantry and where their own specialisations can be used to full effect.
Come back tomorrow to learn about the slicey, dicey, stabby, bashy world of close combat weapons.
WRECKING BALLS ON ALL THE TRUKKS!!!!
That may or may not be a project I am working on at this very moment….
=P
Grabbin’ Klaws make more sense too!
Assuming it does the same thing it did, it sure would!
Will you be recording the podcast after the close combat weapons article drops?
Yeah, we start the live show at 11am PST over on our Twitch Channel: https://www.twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv
I so can’t wait to model a gretchin that’s modeled and painted like Miley Cyrus swinging on her wrecking ball. The look of horror on my opponents faces.
Perfect, lol
Am I correct in my assessment that if a VEHICLE charges an enemy, you then won’t receive overwatch if you charge with subsequent things?
If so, that’s not too shabby.
So long as the vehicle succeeded in its charge. I can see that really helping orks and dark eldar. Both armies that also have obvious CC vehicle upgrades.
Dark Eldar vehicles with fly could then fall back on your next turn and shoot as well 😀
Ahhhhh, and now some of the puzzle becomes much clearer….
I always had faith Reece. This fixes so many of the problems I was worrying about!
Curious what kind of options or protections my Daemons will end up with, as they don’t have that same kind of options. Can’t wait to find out more!
Hmmmm, I wonder if dark eldar raiders can spear into an enemy with their pointy prow, then the guys inside hop out and start cutting.
I am really impressed that they didn’t resort to copy pasting the “please wait for the transport article” to be honest the GW web team is generally impressing the hell out of me lately.
While I’m going to miss the positioning play of different armour facings a bit, this is a much needed change and great streamlining.
Going to be cool seeing literally everything in an Ork army slam into stuff!
True and perhaps some vehicles are actually good in melee….hmm….
Just have to wait and see!
Guess I am going to convert a MawKrusha into a Battlewagon for my feral IronJawz!
Ooo that’s a really good idea!
Dude, send a pic if you do!
Obviously Leman Russes with Commissars on them!
Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword! lolol
I’m totally house-ruling an extra 4+ S3 Attack for anyone who actually has the dude modeled on there 😀
I do!
Can’t wait to go through the compendiums on release!
Just wondering if you guys are going to put up an article about the tactical reserves reveal from yesterday? I like reading the comments here as it’s the only place that doesn’t get flooded with the usual silliness (Dark Eldar aside 😉 )
Tune in to Signals tomorrow, we will recap everything that has been revealed so far!
You guys better review all the Q/A stuff, too!
We shall do our best, our internet was down during a lot of it =( If anyone wants to shoot us a summation of some of the key points, that would be awesome, otherwise we’ll try to catch the replay.
You can still watch the QA even though its not live 🙂
https://www.facebook.com/Warhammer-40000-1575682476085719/
Thanks!
There you go
https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2016
Also totally called the -1 to hit on power fists and the like 😛
I agree. I was looking forward to the Reserves commentary. Frontline attracts a thoughtful and reasonable crowd.
That is something we’ve always been very proud of. The community here is much more reasonable and a lot less trollish. Thanks to all of you for that!
Also, with it all but a hundred percent confirmed that facings no longer exist, I look forward to having all my Leman russes face backwards to start the game. 🙂
Lol, you could do if you wanted to I suppose but it would look really silly.
40k is srs bzns. >:(
I assume you’ve been doing that with all your infantry from the start as well then 😉
Its the Braveheart strategy of showing them your bum so they get mad and then act stupid. Classic strategy.
-1 to leadership on the first turn
Need to see what Quantum Shielding and Living Metal do for Necron vehicles now! W8 4+ isn’t too fantastic, but I’m betting we’ll see rules like before to make them stronger than the statline might give away.
Interesting that it seems that as it takes wounds the Barge’s base stats aren’t effected, maybe it’s quantum shielding (whatever form it takes) and it’s weapons will be effected instead? Or maybe 8 is too few wounds to use that?
Good question! I am sure it will be revealed as we go 😉
Pretty sure that it’s only things that used to be in or near the old Super Heavy category that are going to have reductions as they take damage. Maybe some stuff like Land Raiders with 4HP in 7th, but probably mostly things with 5+.
The Dreadnought Profile we saw didn’t have any indication of reduced performance with damage, either.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the “smaller” vehicles had degredation on them them as well. It’s a pretty easy mechanic to spread around and balance things.
True but it can be other things like the weapons or their special rules that can change, some monster in AoS have their range or damage, or area size of a buff reduced as they take damage.
What’s the smallest thing in AoS that has a decreasing statline/abilities? The fewest Wounds I can think of on one is 10, for the Keeper of Secrets, and I know the Slaanesh Exalted Chariot has 9 and no decreases as it takes Wounds, but there are a lot of things I haven’t used or played against, so I don’t know if 9-10 is a universal break point or not. It is the break point for Characters being targetable while near a Unit, so it seems like it could also reasonably be the break point for decreasing statlines as well.
W00t! This is a great change, maybe the best yet. My Harlequins hanging off the Starweavers might actually be able to do something with those Zephyrglaives they carry!
Also, yeah, Ork vehicles are gonna be HILARIOUS. Wrecking Balls, Grabbin Klaws, Assault Planks, Grot Riggers, and Deff-Rollas! Sure, that Battlewagon will shoot a bunch, but assaulting it is gonna be the REAL death sentence!
=)
I’m still waiting to see how firing actually works in this edition. Vehicles are being streamlined with infantry but what does that mean for shooting arcs? Can everything only shoot forward? Can everything shoot every direction? Etc etc. lots of info still unknown…
Also an excellent question which I think will be revealed sooner than later.
Don’t know how to feel about this one. On one hand it will make the game much smoother with everything acting in the same manner, but on the other it feels like it lessens the awe value of fielding vehicles.
The annhilation barge used to be immune to small arms fire now a few squads of marines can bring it down with bolters.
Not saying that’s bad, just going to take some getting used to.
Vehicles are indeed a BIG change to the game. It takes some getting used to but speeds things up tremendously and IMO, is much more enjoyable as a game, now.
Wait, can you now tie up a vehicle in close combat now? To deny your opponent shooting it.
Positioning is going to be really difficult/important with slow moving vehicles.
Yes it becomes locked, but it can just Fall Back. If it’s got the Fly ability it can Fall Back and still shoot.
Which is tremendously powerful.
Hmm, assuming that that is the case then it would appear that core tactics t other game are going to be changing =)
For me, fielding vehicles was less a sense of awe and more of a sense of aww, I paid a lot of points for that.
lol yeah. I know those feels.
We also haven’t seen the full rules for it yet. On the surface T6, 8W and 4+ save aren’t that hard to take down for a squad of marines (would be an average of 72 shots if I have my math right). But we also have to consider what rules like “Living Metal” and “Quantam Shielding” will do in the new edition.
Could be a million things. Increased save against D1 weapons (like Rubric Marines get), increased toughness, a FnP-type roll to prevent damage, etc etc. The power of Necron vehicles was never in their profiles. It was always in the special rules that we haven’t seen yet.
I suspect that the QA reveal about other ways to save wounds (they talked about dark eldar and nurgle daemons) are going to apply here. Perhaps a double whammy of quantam shields making it harder to wound (maybe a cap at 4+ to wound?) and then a post wound save from living metal. ??? Dunno.
How did you ever hold in the fact that Land Raiders can punch people?
(or you know, wiggle them treds over faces)
I literally giggled.. because that’s so cool and different..
More excited to see a drop pod drop a door on someone to kill them in CC.
That might be the greatest thought ever..
.. I like the idea of a Land Raider “wiggling” to run people over..
Doing donuts in ma land raider
Vehciels in melee is one of the biggest changes to the game, but yeah, remaining silent for as long as we did was a challenge =)
With vehicles actually doing damage in melee (as opposed to tank shock just making them run away) I can see more situations where charging in vehicles is a good idea.
Also kinda makes me wonder if the tabletop will start looking more like all the artwork of battles with everything smashed together in a chaotic melee.
Just a little thing from the just finished Facebook Newhammer Q&A related to this, they confirmed that transports have a capacity (12 was the given example) but no restriction on the number of units they can hold (so that 12 could hold two units of 5 and two characters). What units the transports can carry are restricted by keywords (so specific faction and infantry for example).
Very solid reveal by Andy and Pete! Yeah, the game is changing fundamentally, so folks need to wait before passing judgement on what looks good or bad.
I get that we’re not supposed to pass any judgement but I don’t know what you want us to say in these comments?
I’ve basically stopped commenting or thinking about the rules changes because it’s clear we don’t have the whole picture.
It seems all you want us to say is “I have not considered this rule at all because I am ignorant” over and over again.
I know that’s not on you and it was fun the first few times but the excitement is curdling a bit now.
I just like to keep the perspective focused toward what I actually know. Like “oh vehicles can assault now, do I think that is cool or do I not like that?” Or, “oh, vehicles suffer -1BS when moving and shooting heavy weapons. How do I feel about that?”
You get into trouble when you go “well clearly because of this one change I can ascertain that Orks are completely useless because this means they have BS1 battlecannons that just get D6 shots. That’s garbage. Orks suck.” That’s where you start to get into a bit of trouble…
Exactly. I would avoid drawing conclusions, yet.
You misunderstand me. Feel free to comment, I just advise people not to jump to conclusions without all the info. That and I often cannot comment further, lol.
Wow this effectively allows non-space marines to combat squad. I like the idea of 2 x 5 man avenger squads flying around in a single wave serpent. Or even 5 fire dragons and five avengers flying around in a single wave serpents. Really opens up options for list designs.
I’m hoping shooty tanks, like the Leman Russ, has rules to prevent a silly cheap unit from locking it in combat for atleast 1 turn…otherwise…goodbye shooty vehicles 🙁
Leman Russes also have a super long range that will allow them to position tactically and stay away from little gremlins that want to jump all over them. Plus bubble-wrapping that tank with foot soldiers is always a thing.
I’m worried about this too. But the shooty vehicle can now over watch, so it’ll hurt getting into combat with it at least.
Makes putting heavy flamers on your Leman Russes very tempting.
Roasty toasty!
Or, hello new tactics? I would wait to see everything in entirety before writing off a unit =)
Loving the idea of close combat as a substitute for Tank Shock. I knew Tank Shock was useful, but I never attempted it due to not understanding the rule for it. This will be easier to process, I think. Also looking forward to the close combat weapon profiles tomorrow. My Blood Angels’ chainswords are thirsty, and I’m pretty sure one of them is named Lucille!
Okay does this mean I didn’t make all those conversions for my Necron vehicles for nothing? Those things are the pride of my work and I didn’t get to use any of them for ages.
Also worth noting that the annihilation barge has a 12 inch move, and Necrons vehicles aren’t exactly the speediest, seems like vehicles are going to be much more manoeuvrable while still firing their guns (or charging)!
My biggest hope? The Heldrake can actually act like a dragon in melee as well! He doesn’t need to be super effective, but it always sucked that a flyer shaped like a dragon and with dragon breath ended up unable to melee.
He did get the fly-over like MCs which was kind of a fitting type of attack for him.
On the flip-side it got pretty nerfed in 7th edition so it was not nearly as fun as it was in 6th.
I will be a really happy camper if my heldrake can actually punch fliers to death.
Yes! YES! I cannot WAIT to charge my Hive Crone into a Stormtalon, OM NOM NOM NOM!!!
Haha, pretty awesome, right?!
Indeed! The Transport rules are also a huge deal for Tyranids. With a 20 model capacity the 75pts really feels worth it for a Tyrannocyte to take something besides Monstrous Creatures.
I used to hem and haw over whether 75pts was worth it for a Pyrovore Brood, over even 3 Zoanthropes, but if I can put them both un 1 pod it becomes really a lot more worth it.
The new edition seems really well thought out. While there are a few things I would have done differently (I liked vehicle facings, having a different Toughness value for each facing would have been fine with me), those are all random personal preferences – the rules seem very solid so far.
Now my only problem is I don’t want to wait anymore, I want all the rules NOW haha. Still, thats not much of a complaint really. Sorta the definition of bullsh*t #firstworldproblems haha.
on the other hand, when the Storm Talon is a better unit in melee than my Hive Crone…. lol…
lol, well, I cannot comment to that point but as I keep saying, wait to see all the rules as some of these concerns may prove to be groundless =)
Have we found out how hitting flyers and FMC works in the new edition? My hope is that it’s not just a -1 to hit or worse yet nothing like in Sigmar. I don’t need to have ALL flyrants bt some would be nice 🙂
Don’t think they’ve revealed that, yet.
Hive Mind defense mechanism- “pessimism” activated. Bio-coping mechanism “sarcasm” is on standby.
TBH- I’m hyper curious about what Tyranids will be in this edition. We have seen so many changes since I started playing in 2004 or so that there is almost nothing that would surprise me.
Also, the current rules (outside of the Flyrant) are so piss poor that I’m confident my (now mostly) ridiculous collection of models will be better…
Yeah, I love Nids too and was very hopeful for them in NewHammer. I also may or may not have already written the get hyped article for them, so keep an eye on the Community page to see some of what to expect =)
Can’t wait to charge something with my Goilath Rockgrinder…
So that necron vehicle is not looking very durable for a vehicle that was actually fairly durable last edition, significantly more so than a dread or rhino and moderately more so than a pred chassis tank when you take into account the skimmer rule. it will be interesting to see where lightly armored stuff falls, toughness 4 and 4 wound rhinos 🙂
Remember it was AV11 all around before. The durability came from the Quantum Shielding/Living Metal combo, and we haven’t see either of those rules yet.
So far AV11 seems to be T6, AV12 = T7 and AV13 = T8.
These stats are actually pretty comparable with last edition. If you just looked at the profile of a barge you would see AV11 and 3HP and go “meh, that’s easy to kill.”
Wait for the special rules
Oh snap, so does this mean chain flails and shock prows might have a more significant purpose on my vehicles : O
Can’t wait to find out. (up until now I’ve pretty much just used them as decorations and never actually used ’em in game)
If Rhinos remain relatively cheap and have a statline similar to the Barge (which I suspect), they are going to be greatly useful/annoying. A good unit to throw at a shooty squad to deny them their shooting phase. Can be used to slow down/tie up scary assault units too by placing themselve in their charge lanes.
I wonder if CSM’s currently kinda useless “stick a bunch of sharp stuff on the front of our rhinos, cuz fuck you” upgrade might be worth taking. It always seemed appropriately insane.