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Space Marines: Strike Force Ultima:
Captain
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Termies
Tac Squad
Stormhawk
Land Raider
Drop Pod
All units must start in reseve, automatically arrive turn 1. Add 1 to all shots for models in this formaiton the turn they arrive….wow.
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Genestealer Cults chatter: are they TOO good?
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35 thoughts on “Signals from the Frontline #472: Genestealer Cults, OP?”
Excuse me I need to go find me a badger like right now!
I’m at work, so I can’t join the Twitch chat, so I’m going to comment here.
Anyone who is a regular over at TheTyranidHive forums knows that we’ve been analyzing this codex to death ever since the leaks started up. It’s a very, very good codex. No doubt about that. I do think that calling it OP is a bit alarmist.
The meta at this point is all about cramming as many heavy guns and nearly invincible units on the table. It’s all about the Grav, Meltas, Gargantuan Creatures, Superheavies, and Deathstars. When no one bubble-wraps their heavies with infantry, and they get charged, of course they’re going to scream OP! When no one takes flamers, large blasts, or massed rapid fire weapons (bolters!) it’s going to seem like there’s just too much to kill in a well designed horde army.
I bet you in a few months the meta will start to change. You’re going to see a few more cheap troops on the table to absorb charges. You’re going to see just a few more flamers and large blasts to thin out those blobs of Purestrains and Acolytes. When it all settles I think this codex will be one of the best things to hit the game. An army with no Superheavies, no GC’s, no deathstars. Just lots of infantry for people to shoot at, and worry about positioning for assaults.
OP no change in play style yes. Will it be able to compete with eldar is what im curioud about. Space marines shouldnt have to much of a problem with most army builds. Got to love the old rhino
Would love to see an Eldar spoiler army.
My local group’s eldar player says he isn’t worried and that genecult looks terrible but I think he’s massively underestimating them.
I feel like they have all the tools to take out all armies. Popup-assault buckets of S4 rending death on absurdly high initiative kills virtually everything in 40k that’s not an upper-tier invisible death star.
Mmm. Eldar don’t like reserve armies, it’s true, and assaults are one of the better ways to do damage to a lot of their stuff, but many Eldar armies run Tau alongside to stop reserve shenanigans, and Tau put an end to most GSC stuff toot suite.
I don’t think it’s going to fundamentally change anything for Eldar. It will be an army that is a less-favorable matchup for them, but those already exist- the problem is that those armies struggle to reach the top tables where Eldar typically live at. GSC are not going to challenge a lot of the other armies out there very much- not Battle Company (who has the Bolters and melee attacks as well as Flamer options to kill them pretty easily), not Tau (who will destroy them before they really even get a turn), not any of the various deathstars (since GSC rely heavily on melee to do their work, which is where deathstars shine) and not the various Daemonic lists (who, again, live primarily in melee and should easily be able to beat them in combat and then sweep them.)
The issue isn’t that eldar would be foiled, it’s that all the codexes that are lesser than Eldar are also foiled at least as much.
And bubble wrap is of limited use against an army exceptionally well equipped to take out the bubble wrap in record time, or just pinpoint no scatter deep strike around the wrap. Metamorphs get what 4 attacks each on the charge? Plus more shenanigans to make that even better?
And how are the fast armies supposed to play with bubble wrap? Are dark eldar supposed to bubble wrap and castle in the corner with their skimmers? Cede all the objectives to the GSC army and just try to stay alive? It just doesn’t make sense.
Poor blood angels, they just got a new codex and already they just look like victims.
I really think you guys are overreacting. I could be wrong of course but these are T3 models with a 5+, lol. Overwatch alone will hurt them badly.
Let’s say you have 12 units, only 3-4 of them will actually get to charge. If they’re 5 man (which they’d have to be), that really isn’t that many attacks. Yeah, they hit hard, yeah, they’re good but I don’t see them dominating the meta or anything. Time will tell, I have yet to play them, but they are paper thin.
They are great against Eldar and the cult ambush seems to get mistaken for a definite charge in some people’s heads.
So that may cause it. I think the Dark Angels Gladius just laughs at any attempt of these guys charging them.
And as a Necron player I just shrugs and say bring it. I can take as hard as you can dish out but you can’t take what comes back.
I still think the super mobile scoring is the best part and that is probably super hard to deal with.
The notion that GSC is OP is laughable. It’s not even going to be a top tier codex. There is a lot of chicken little “the sky is falling” going on out there. And what’s worse, a lot of the people complaining about the GSC codex have not even played against the army. Many people are forming strong opinions and being very vocal based purely on some mathhammering.
It’s an army of 5+ save models…
Before anyone comments about how OP GSC is, please post how many games you’ve played against them :). The codex has been out a week. My guess is that most people complaining haven’t even seen them in the table yet.
If they naturally had Infiltrate (which some but not all of the units do), they get Shrouded as part of the Ambush. And it’s only for the first turn of the game, I believe.
And now we may begin to see why they are so OP… people don’t read the rules! And for the first few tournaments, people may be able to get away with “liberal” interpretations of the dex. (I always can charge from reserve, my Decurion gives me shrouded…)
It’s only for turn 1, and it’s only if you take a specific formation, and even then, it’s only applicable to those models who normally have the infiltrate rule in their unit entry (i.e. purestrain genestealers and the HQs).
I feel like we are all losing focus on the real major story here. Which is that some dude actualy sat down and wrote FOUR books about someone playing Bloodbowl. That is amazing and wrong on so many levels.
The book about Magnus is the 3rd book in the 18 book series where each one features a Primarch, book one was about Guiliman, 2 is on preorder now about Russ etc, they all take place before or during the Heresy
For ITC, you can’t take IG and Nids with GSC in the same army correct?
This would be bc IG and Nids are CTA allies.
If we are going to allow this could we then go back and allow other bridge armies?
THis would also mean that if you have a Chaos Space Marine force, you could have both Demon and Necron allies in the same army (with CSM bridging the gap).
Clearly it is, CtA is allowed in the rules (but so is unbound, etc.). Most tournaments don’t allow CtA though as the majority of players do not enjoy having them.
I have spoken with 2 or 3 ITC vets who were confused on the concept of “bridge armies”, and asked for clarification here on a previous post.
In the minds of many, your primary detachment determines which other formations are legal (I.e. the bridge concept.) It doesn’t really come up all that often, and indeed is worth a clarification.
FWIW- I’d be OK with either ruling from a fluff, fun, competitive standpoint. Once we start allowing the Imperium to summon daemons, the whole CtA thing bothers me less and less 😉
Excuse me I need to go find me a badger like right now!
hahaha!
I’m at work, so I can’t join the Twitch chat, so I’m going to comment here.
Anyone who is a regular over at TheTyranidHive forums knows that we’ve been analyzing this codex to death ever since the leaks started up. It’s a very, very good codex. No doubt about that. I do think that calling it OP is a bit alarmist.
The meta at this point is all about cramming as many heavy guns and nearly invincible units on the table. It’s all about the Grav, Meltas, Gargantuan Creatures, Superheavies, and Deathstars. When no one bubble-wraps their heavies with infantry, and they get charged, of course they’re going to scream OP! When no one takes flamers, large blasts, or massed rapid fire weapons (bolters!) it’s going to seem like there’s just too much to kill in a well designed horde army.
I bet you in a few months the meta will start to change. You’re going to see a few more cheap troops on the table to absorb charges. You’re going to see just a few more flamers and large blasts to thin out those blobs of Purestrains and Acolytes. When it all settles I think this codex will be one of the best things to hit the game. An army with no Superheavies, no GC’s, no deathstars. Just lots of infantry for people to shoot at, and worry about positioning for assaults.
I agree on all points and that is why there is a question mark in the title. We’re asking, not stating =)
OP no change in play style yes. Will it be able to compete with eldar is what im curioud about. Space marines shouldnt have to much of a problem with most army builds. Got to love the old rhino
I think Eldar will live in fear of Genestealer Cults. They have the right tools.
Would love to see an Eldar spoiler army.
My local group’s eldar player says he isn’t worried and that genecult looks terrible but I think he’s massively underestimating them.
I feel like they have all of the tools to take Eldar out, personally.
I feel like they have all the tools to take out all armies. Popup-assault buckets of S4 rending death on absurdly high initiative kills virtually everything in 40k that’s not an upper-tier invisible death star.
Mmm. Eldar don’t like reserve armies, it’s true, and assaults are one of the better ways to do damage to a lot of their stuff, but many Eldar armies run Tau alongside to stop reserve shenanigans, and Tau put an end to most GSC stuff toot suite.
I don’t think it’s going to fundamentally change anything for Eldar. It will be an army that is a less-favorable matchup for them, but those already exist- the problem is that those armies struggle to reach the top tables where Eldar typically live at. GSC are not going to challenge a lot of the other armies out there very much- not Battle Company (who has the Bolters and melee attacks as well as Flamer options to kill them pretty easily), not Tau (who will destroy them before they really even get a turn), not any of the various deathstars (since GSC rely heavily on melee to do their work, which is where deathstars shine) and not the various Daemonic lists (who, again, live primarily in melee and should easily be able to beat them in combat and then sweep them.)
GSC are a hard counter to certain staples in the current meta like jetbikes and warp spiders.
That doesn’t make them OP. It makes them good for the game.
The issue isn’t that eldar would be foiled, it’s that all the codexes that are lesser than Eldar are also foiled at least as much.
And bubble wrap is of limited use against an army exceptionally well equipped to take out the bubble wrap in record time, or just pinpoint no scatter deep strike around the wrap. Metamorphs get what 4 attacks each on the charge? Plus more shenanigans to make that even better?
And how are the fast armies supposed to play with bubble wrap? Are dark eldar supposed to bubble wrap and castle in the corner with their skimmers? Cede all the objectives to the GSC army and just try to stay alive? It just doesn’t make sense.
Poor blood angels, they just got a new codex and already they just look like victims.
I really think you guys are overreacting. I could be wrong of course but these are T3 models with a 5+, lol. Overwatch alone will hurt them badly.
Let’s say you have 12 units, only 3-4 of them will actually get to charge. If they’re 5 man (which they’d have to be), that really isn’t that many attacks. Yeah, they hit hard, yeah, they’re good but I don’t see them dominating the meta or anything. Time will tell, I have yet to play them, but they are paper thin.
They are great against Eldar and the cult ambush seems to get mistaken for a definite charge in some people’s heads.
So that may cause it. I think the Dark Angels Gladius just laughs at any attempt of these guys charging them.
And as a Necron player I just shrugs and say bring it. I can take as hard as you can dish out but you can’t take what comes back.
I still think the super mobile scoring is the best part and that is probably super hard to deal with.
I do feel like people focus too much on the charge from reserves on a 6 stuff. Their ability to appear on objectives is what will win them the game.
The notion that GSC is OP is laughable. It’s not even going to be a top tier codex. There is a lot of chicken little “the sky is falling” going on out there. And what’s worse, a lot of the people complaining about the GSC codex have not even played against the army. Many people are forming strong opinions and being very vocal based purely on some mathhammering.
It’s an army of 5+ save models…
Before anyone comments about how OP GSC is, please post how many games you’ve played against them :). The codex has been out a week. My guess is that most people complaining haven’t even seen them in the table yet.
I am in agreement with you. I was very surprised to get the emails about them dominating early tournaments, frankly.
Don’t these guys get shrouded the turn they come in? When they have a 2+ or 3+ save, how are they going to dis easy to shooting even at T3?
If they naturally had Infiltrate (which some but not all of the units do), they get Shrouded as part of the Ambush. And it’s only for the first turn of the game, I believe.
Yeah, only turn 1 unless I am missing something. Really not that crazy.
And now we may begin to see why they are so OP… people don’t read the rules! And for the first few tournaments, people may be able to get away with “liberal” interpretations of the dex. (I always can charge from reserve, my Decurion gives me shrouded…)
It’s only for turn 1, and it’s only if you take a specific formation, and even then, it’s only applicable to those models who normally have the infiltrate rule in their unit entry (i.e. purestrain genestealers and the HQs).
I feel like we are all losing focus on the real major story here. Which is that some dude actualy sat down and wrote FOUR books about someone playing Bloodbowl. That is amazing and wrong on so many levels.
Right?! lol
I wonder if you will see min AM CAD as primary with the Skyhammer annihilation force and the rest lots of ambushing genestealer cult units?
Genestealer Cult are come the apocalypse allies with marines, which I think isn’t allowed in ITC I think?
The book about Magnus is the 3rd book in the 18 book series where each one features a Primarch, book one was about Guiliman, 2 is on preorder now about Russ etc, they all take place before or during the Heresy
Nice. Are they good reads?
Thanks for the shout out! We had 10 peeps show up for our first ITC league at A.B.U. Games! RTT this Nov 12th! Woot – https://www.facebook.com/events/1064228340352080/
Awesome!
For ITC, you can’t take IG and Nids with GSC in the same army correct?
This would be bc IG and Nids are CTA allies.
If we are going to allow this could we then go back and allow other bridge armies?
THis would also mean that if you have a Chaos Space Marine force, you could have both Demon and Necron allies in the same army (with CSM bridging the gap).
That is exactly why we wouldn’t allow it, haha, as then we’re basically back to CTA.
You may want to clarify this on the podcast.
I think a lot of folks think GSC with both Nids/IG in same army is Rules as intended.
Clearly it is, CtA is allowed in the rules (but so is unbound, etc.). Most tournaments don’t allow CtA though as the majority of players do not enjoy having them.
I have spoken with 2 or 3 ITC vets who were confused on the concept of “bridge armies”, and asked for clarification here on a previous post.
In the minds of many, your primary detachment determines which other formations are legal (I.e. the bridge concept.) It doesn’t really come up all that often, and indeed is worth a clarification.
FWIW- I’d be OK with either ruling from a fluff, fun, competitive standpoint. Once we start allowing the Imperium to summon daemons, the whole CtA thing bothers me less and less 😉