22 thoughts on “40k Brawl! The Dimachaeron Lives! Tyranids Vs Ultramarines Battle Report”

1. Before any one else tells me off for taking LOS rolls with the hive tyrants,( dakka are too quick!) I’m sorry, my bad, Lo siento!

   Still a rookie- clearly 12 years of being a nerd means nothing in 40k :]

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2. Awesome BatRep! Go Nids beating up on the banana marines. Dimachaeron should have totally went after the marine warlord though! Would have made a great narrative 🙂

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   1. Ah man he totally should have! I was very reserved though out of fear of losing anything on the first turn though :S
      Next time, el Dima is going for tiggy!!!

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3. So about Psychic Scream. It’s a Wotchfire power straight up. Which means it has to roll to hit. So you can target flyers but your only gonna hit on a 6.

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   1. This is an awful big point of contention at my club. While yes, witchfires must roll to hit, there aren’t actually any rules that tell you how to roll to hit if it doesn’t have a weapon profile. How many shots is it? What happens if you move and attempt to use psychic shriek? The rules for moving and shooting specifically tell you to reference the weapon. Another issue that arises is psychic shriek tells you that it affects the target. Does a target cease to be your target if you miss it?

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      1. The book says they are shooting attacks in every way and can be fired as snap shots. If the model lacks the skyfire rule it would be forced to snap at a flying target. As for how to roll to hit, you use the ballistic skill of the sniper unless snap firing just as you would a shooting attack. The book also says that if it has a weapon profile use that, if not use the rules above which is what I laid out. It’s actually pretty cut and dry.

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         1. It’s anything but cut and dry. The rules don’t exist. How many shots is it? Can you still fire if you moved? If your going to answer with “1” and “yes” you’re going to need to show me where in the rule book it says that

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            1. It’s pretty dang cut and dry if you ask me. It specifically states those rules he said above. You roll to hit and replace the to wound roll with the effect stated. Since it doesn’t say it limits your movement it doesn’t. Since it doesn’t say it’s more than 1 to hit roll it isn’t. I mean why would it even be more than 1? I really don’t understand why people are confused about this.

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            2. Why can’t I roll a dice for every model in the unit in range? Where in the rule book does it state that shooting attacks default to one shot? Btw, you should really read the rules for moving and shooting. The rules specifically tell you it depends on the weapon. There is not a default for moving and shooting. These are things determined by a weapon’s type, which psychic shriek doesn’t have.

               Now, if you can show me somewhere in the rules that says in lieu of a profile, treat a shooting attack as assault 1, then I’ll concede. Otherwise, stating that it’s only one shot because it doesn’t say that it is more doesn’t work because it also doesn’t say that it is one shot.

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            3. “Witchfire powers are shooting attacks. Indeed, they are often referred to as psychic shooting attacks and MANY have profiles similiar to ranged weapons. Just like when shooting a weapon, a Psyker must be able to see the TARGET unit (or target point) an cannot be locked in combat if he wishes to manifest a Witchfire power. Similarly, a Witchfire power MUST roll to hit, UNLESS it has the Blast special rule, in which case it scatters as described on page 158, or it is a Template in which case it hits automatically. ~ hits are allocated to the closest target models to the Psyker.”

               “There are several different sub-types of Witchfire, each applying slightly different targeting restrictions. If the Witchfire does not list a sub-type, or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack, use the rules given above to resolve it. If it has one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that subtype.”

               Sub-Types
               Beam
               Focused Witchfire
               Nova

               “Psychic Shriek Warp Charge 1
               Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire (notice no sub-type) power with a range of 18″. Roll 3D6 and subtract the TARGET’s Leadership.”

               It’s a Witchfire, no sub-type therefore according to its own rules it MUST roll to hit. If you can’t figure it out from that you never will.

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            4. You don’t understand what I’m saying. I get that it says you have to, but it doesn’t say how. Psychic shriek doesn’t have a ranged profile, so how many shots is it? Do I have to snap fire if I move (remember, the rules for moving and shooting are specific to the weapon, and since psychic shriek has no profile, there’s nothing to tell if you can move or shoot with it) and again, please, if your going to say its only one shot or you can move and shoot with it, show me in the rule book where it says you can. I assure you, it doesn’t exist.

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   2. Psychic scream is a nova. According to the BRB nova his flyers and FMC.

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      1. Shoot, I meant Psychic shriek ( obviously tigirius cannot cast a tyranid power)

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4. @IndigoJack: You’re making it complicated for no reason whatsoever. It is not difficult to understand.

   P.27 says, “If the witchfire does not list a sub-type, or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack, use the rules given above to resolve it.”

   The “rules given above…” are explained thoroughly on p.27.

   -Roll to hit the same way you do for a shooting attack. Yes, it says that in there. In other words, you use the psyker’s BS. There’s nothing that says it’s a Snap Shot if the Psyker moves, so there’s no reason to assume or even ask if it’s a Snap Shot when the psyker moves. Roll as normal for shooting.

   -Psychic Shriek isn’t a Beam, Focussed Witchfire, or Nova, so it doesn’t use those rules.

   -If something has forced the psyker to only be able to fire Snap Shots, the rules on p.27 say “Psykers can make Snap Shots in the Psychic phase with witchfire powers in the same way as with other shooting weapons.”

   -The power does exactly what it says it does in the description; profile or not. One ability, one shot, unless it says otherwise. Assuming it’s confusing or blurry is absolutely unnecessary.

   -“…a Psyker can manifest several different witchfire powers during the same phase (assuming he has enough Warp Charge) and each can target a different unit if you so choose.” So while a Psyker can fire multiple times, they must be different, so no repeats on the same power from the same Psyker.

   -You asked “why can’t I roll a dice for every model in the unit in range?” Because the rules for witchfire and the power Psychic Shriek don’t permit that at all. p.198: “Roll 3d6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result.” The key phrase is: “…THE TARGET UNIT…” Not models in the unit, or each model in the unit. You roll 3d6, subtract the target unit’s Ld, and the target UNIT takes those wounds.

   -The book doesn’t have to say a power or weapon without a profile defaults to assault 1. By not saying it, it’s not a question: the power does what it says in the profile, follows the rules for witchfire, and it’s over. So one psyker can manifest it once, it does what it says in the description to one target unit, and that’s it. End of discussion.

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   1. I see that despite the fact that I asked for page numbers in the rule book, you’ve provided none. Where in the rule book does it say you can move and shoot? Assault weapons specifically grant you permission to move and shoot. It’s part of their profile. Please, read the rules for moving and shooting. Also, your argument about using one shooting attack on one unit means one attack doesn’t work either. I fire one heavy bolter at one unit and get three shots. That’s because the profile states it is a heavy 3 weapon. The profile is the only thing that tells you how many shots something is. If you believe different, show me where it says that in the rules.

      I agree, the key phrase is, “target unit…” More specifically, “target unit suffers…” When does my target cease to be my target? I targeted them in step 2 of manifesting my power. If I fail a roll to hit, do they cease to be my target (and by extension, does the power fail)? When a normal shooting attack misses, you can’t roll to wound. That’s because the rules for rolling to wound specifically, “to find out if the hits wound…” and you need to hit to wound. Psychic shriek has no such wording. It just says, “target unit suffers…” Not, “unit hit suffers….”

      I know it seems I’m being obtuse about this. The point I’m trying to make is that you have to make rules up to roll to hit with psychic shriek. Nothing tells you how to interact with it after moving, nothing tells you how many shots it is (again, if you’re going to deny this, please provide a reference in the rule book), and all the other issues that exist. If we already have to make stuff up, why don’t we assume that when the rules say, “a witchfire must roll to hit”, they meant a witchfire with a weapon profile, to which rolling to hit can be applied without making large assumptions about the rules? I know it’s a bit of a radical leap, but it’s one that makes more sense once you realize that, RAW, you can’t roll to hit for psychic shriek, because the rules don’t exist. And again, for the third time this post, if you’re going to say psychic shriek is one shot, show me the page number that says shooting attacks without a weapon profile are one shot. And if your going to say that you can move and shoot with psychic shriek, read the rules for moving and shooting then tell me where it says psychic shriek is an assualt weapon.

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      1. Feel free to play it however you want wherever you live. The rest of us are going to play it as the book says and not get stupid about it.

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         1. I fail to see how I’m getting stupid about it. When I saw that psychic shriek was a witchfire, my first question was, “how do I roll to hit if it doesn’t have a profile?” So rather than making up rules (like it seems that many people have) I looked at the rule book. The best place to start, was under Roll To Hit (p. 32).

            “To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a D6 for each shot that is in range. Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once, as we’ll explain in more detail later”

            Then under Weapons (p. 40):

            “Some shooting weapons fire multiple shots. Where this is the case, the number of shots a weapon fires is noted after its type.”

            Since Psychic Shriek doesn’t have a type, it’s actually reasonable to assume that it’s one shot. See? Not hard to prove, just requires actually picking up a book. The problem is, you guys assumed you were right and that you didn’t need to prove a thing. I’m sorry, that’s not how you win arguments… ever.

            There are still actual problems with rolling to hit with psychic shriek. The biggest is that there is no instruction on whether or not you can move and shoot with it. Moving & Shooting (p.32)

            “Whether a model has moved or not can make a big difference in its ability to fire. Some guns are so heavy that they can only be used effectively if their firer halts completely to brace himself or set up his weapon on the ground This is explained in more detail in the Weapons section (p. 40).”

            Type (p. 40)

            “A shooting weapon always has one of the following types: Assualt, Bomb, Heavy, Ordnance, Pistol, Primary Weapon, Rapid Fire, or Salvo. These rules (found on the next two pages) measure a weapon’s portability and affect the way they can be fired, depending on whether or not the model carrying them moved that turn.”

            Huh, it says a shooting weapon always has one of those types, yet psychic shriek doesn’t. There are no rules that allow you to move and use psychic shriek. They simply don’t exist.

            And then there’s the wording on psychic shriek:

            “Roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result.”

            It says target unit, not unit hit. Look back up at the rules for Roll To Hit. What did it call the unit before rolls to hit were made? The target.

            Now, to be perfectly honest, a lot of is probably an issue with the rules writers. One person wrote the psychic powers, and another wrote the rules for manifesting psychic powers. The one who wrote those rules probably assume that all psychic shooting attacks would have weapon profiles, and the person that wrote the rules for psychic shriek (and other witchfires that don’t have weapon profiles) probably assumed that the language would be clear enough that you wouldn’t need to roll to hit. Without real and proper play testing, no one noticed that there was a contradiction.

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            1. Psychic shriek rules state ‘targeted unit’ do you always target the entire unit? what if

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            2. I never rolled to hit with psychic shriek so hadn’t thought about this till now. My interpretation was that since the rules said ‘target unit’ the hit/wound/save process was aborted at this step and special rules took their place.

               So if you are rolling to hit i have a few more questions for you;

               Psychic shriek rules state ‘targeted unit’ do you always target the entire unit?
               What if you would not normally be able to target members of the unit? (e.g. out of LOS or range)
               Or there are different cover saves? (for focus fire)
               Can you snipe parts of the unit to avoid high Ld or ensure removal of special/heave weapons or characters?
               If yes to the above what about DtW if a character with an exceptional deny the witch role is in the unit?
               Cover saves?

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5. Sorry to add another little rules niggle but you can’t change flight modes and assault in the same turn, whether you changed deliberately or fell down from a perils as you did.

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6. Damn… Am I missing something or is that kind of unclear though?
   That makes psychic tests even worse if your right- especially as all my dice are apparently weighted to roll a 6 whenever I try cast powers!

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7. Yeah, there are a few weird things that may break the rules in this narrative bat rep. Note – if you plan to do a bat rep, it is best to keep the “bravado” down a notch and instead focus on what you and your opponent learned. For all the shriek discussion above, if the flyrant had changed from swooping to gliding (in order to not have to fly off) then the need to roll 6’s becomes 3’s. The players may have rolled a simple single dice for the hit roll, but the writer fails to clear that up, and also fails to acknowledge when the marines used their three trait options, or tiggys warlord buff.

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