Show Notes
7-1-14
Intro
- Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube! Join our Forums, too! If you would like to be a guest on the show, email Reece at Contact@FrontlineGaming.org
- We sell tabletop games and supplies at 20% off! Hit us up for your next gaming order at Orders@FrontlineGaming.org or visit our webstore at FrontlineGaming.org.
News
- BAO Update
- We will be closed for the 4th of July.
- Wargames Consortium interviewed Reecius at Adepticon.
- Read a report from Orock over on Dakka of an anything goes tournament for 7th ed.
- Check out the NOVA Charity Auction.
Rumors: The Rumor Section is gathered from the web and is not in any way information we receive from any manufacturer nor is it necessarily accurate. This section of the podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.
- Dark Eldar rumors:
- Incubi box set
- Void Raven Bomber
- Dark Eldar codex, supplement, data slates, and limited edition codex mentioned.
- Rumors of Da Red WAAGH! which will feature Warboss Grukk FaceRippa
Rant Session
Tactics Corner
- Gary P. tried using some of the new ideas we were talking about with Nids on Frontline and he said they had worked quite well for him, nice!
- Orks Mob Rule discussion.
- Orks tactics discussion and lists.
- Stompa Fixer Uppers
- Ork awesome wargear
- VSG and Trukk Rush
- Character Support
- Formations
- Barrage and Sniper Rifles no longer cause Pinning.
- Deep Striking vehicles now count as moving at combat speed which means no snap fire, which is awesome.
Rules Lawyer
- A reader of our blog mentioned a way to get around Ordnance!
List Review
Detachment 1 1635pts (primary)
Master of the forge
5x tactical squad
5x tactical squad
Contemptor mortis
Lascannons
Cyclone missile launcher
Contemptor mortis
Keres assualt cannons
LR Achilles
LR Achilles
Spartan assualt tank
Armored ceramite
Detachment 2 365
Master of the forge
5x tactical squad
5x tactical squad
Sicaran battle tank
Shame Zagstruck doesn’t have Waaagh! which seems like an oversight.
My guess is that it’s intentional, he’s just a Nob.
But storm boyz benefit most from the Waagh! rule, and only your warlord can call Waagh! yet Zagstruk needs to be the warlord in order for you to benefit from his warlord trait. Which kind of defeats the point.
His warlord trait has nothing to do with Waaagh!, it lets him and units within 12″ re-roll failed morale and pinning tests, I’m not sure what you’re thinking there.
Ok I’ll try to be clearer.
Stormboyz have the option to run 2d6″ because of their Rokkit packs.
Once per game a model with the Waaagh! special rule can, if he is your Warlord, call a Waaagh! Which let models with the ‘Ere we go special rule charge in the assault phase even if they ran in the shooting phase.
So Waaagh! lets your stormboyz charge after running (giving them a massive threat range).
You can only nominate one model to be the warlord of you army.
In order to benefit from Zagstruks warlord trait (which lets you re-roll morale and pinning like you said). He needs to be the warlord, he does not gain the trait if he is not your warlord.
As a result you have to chose between:
-Zagstruk being the warlord and therefore benefiting from his warlord trait.
Or
-Warboss being the warlord and therefore benefiting from the Waaagh! special rule.
Hope that helps. 😀
What’d you expect out of such an incredibly cheap character?
I wasn’t expecting anything.
I just thought it was worth pointing out. That you will be sacrificing the effectiveness of your stormboyz (as waaagh! is key to getting the most out of them). If make Zags your warlord you lose that.
Which is something to consider.
Also he’s not particularly cheap, he’s got a nob statline (+1S +1WS +1A +1LD) and powerklaw feet that he will rarely get to use, as more often than not he will use his jump pack in the movement phase and as a result not get hammer of wrath in the assault phase (meaning no S8 AP2 hits).
He’s still a good option, just not great with stormboyz if you want to make him your warlord (ironically).
That being said his vulcha skwad formation sounds like loads of fun. 😀
The one friday Im actually off and you are closed 🙁
Sorry, buddy!
I was going to give you guys my check and my 70$ worth of tips, but now I will just go to the Video Game Store.
Also, I hope you keep repairing the Stompa, more VP for me
Sorry buddy but it doesn’t work like that. Every hull point repaired is treated as having never been made. So they will actually take away VP you have gotten from it.
Well, it doesn’t really do that, because it still suffers the damage result, such as immobilized or weapon destroyer.
However, the way that VP’s are calculated for “Through Attrition, Victory” explicitly says that HP’s recovered through Repair, IWND, etc., do not count for determining those VP’s.
“However, A Vehicle the fires Ordnance can only make snap shots with its other weapons that turn”
The leman Russ fired a Ordnance, SO I would say no.
But if I fire my 3 heavy bolters first at full BS then fire a battle cannon shot everything is fine, there is no rule saying you have to fire your ordnance first but there is a rule saying you must fire your guns in weapon type groups and resolve all the hits/ wounds before fireing another weapon group , so nothing is fire at the same time anymore like last edition
I can see how it is either way. But think about it logically and with common sense. Same with the old how do you infiltrate with a SC. The logic and common senses is there.
Well you’re commen sense and “logical” conclusions arn’t the same for everyone else, when I get home later I’m going to scrutinize the rule book and post my findings
If you fire Ordnance you must snapfire all other weapons that turn. Did you fire those heavy bolters that turn? Did they snapfire? Ordnance isn’t order dependent, it refers to the turn in it’s entirety, it doesn’t say “snapfire for the rest of the turn” or something similar that would place the firing of ordnance somewhere in the order of operation.
Can you quote the exact rules where this is said? I have tried to find the “Choose all weapons you want to fire and then resolve them one at the time” but cant. It only says choose weapon, resolve it and choose another. It would create weird situations otherwise. Snapfire you bolters, kill the unit and suddenly you fired snapfire but didnt fire the ordance at all. What?
Also from fluff perspective the way i see it is that the unit fires it’s other weapons, stops and then fires the massive ordnance weapon which causes so much shaking and other interference which causes Snap Fire.
The exact rule is:
“Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn. A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can still Snap Shoot Ordnance, but of course, cannot fire any Ordnance weapon that cannot be fired as Snap Shots.”
If you fire other weapons THAT TURN they must snap fire if you’re firing Ordnance, the key words there being THAT TURN, it doesn’t say, “for the rest of the turn.”
I assure you that I’ve been trying to find a way around this for 2 editions now so that I could actually use Hellstrike Missiles, but unfortunately, it refers to the entire turn, not just the bit of the turn remaining after firing the ordnance weapon.
You declare all fire simultaneously and resolve it individually for convenience and creation of AP pools. If you declare you will fire the ordnance, then the other stuff must be snapped.
Yeah, exactly. Nothing about the way it’s written talks about order of operations, it just says that you must snapfire other weapons fired that turn. It doesn’t say snapfire after firing ordnance, just all the other shots that entire turn.
GWs rules are hard to interpret on this.
The shooting rules support firing in groups so shooting HBs or whatever first seems legit, however firing ordnance next is clearly against the intention of the ordnance rule forcing snaps to other shots. I might even just make an opponent go back and snap fire the HBs replacing my casualties if this happened. I mean this is pretty clear:
“However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn”.
Shooting the ordnance last is still just as illegal, you’re just hoping to game the other player into not asking you to fix it.
As an example of how confused GW seems to be on it’s own rules they include this in the vehicle section for ordnance.
“A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can still Snap Shoot Ordnance, but of course, cannot fire any Ordnance weapon that cannot be fired as Snap Shots”
In the weapons section is expressly says: “ordnance weapons cannot be snap fired”.
Good times GW, good times.
Does it really say “Ordnance weapons cannot be snap fired”?
As there are Ordnance weapons which aren’t Blast/Large Blast.
Though I agree they need to have a dedicated team of tourney level players try and break their rules for 6-8 months before releasing them. Some of this stuff is picked up within minutes of leak/release.
Playing some club games with the 10 people they attribute their playtesting to is ridiculous.
That could be in case they introduce non blast ordnance in the future. Aren’t laser destroyers ordnance?
yes they are
page 73 says a vehicle may snap shoot ordnance as long as its a weapon type can, ie not blast
I completely agree, and quoted the vehicle rule. Unfortunately the ordnance entry in the weapons section muddies the waters.
Yeah, a lot of single shot weapons have ordnance. Hellfire Missiles, some Laser weapons, etc.
A comment on your Maelstrom missions. I had a thought that your modified table may be favoring certain types of armies (OS transport spam mostly) inadvertently.
I haven’t broken it down yet and looked at the ratio to be certain, but it get a sense that the modified BAO chart includes a greater percentage of “take and hold” style objectives than the original chart. If this is the case, then you greatly increase the ability of armies with larger numbers of fast scoring units (especially OS) to score and win the secondary. In the original there were a lot of “kill this type of unit” sprinkled in to dilute the number of take and hold missions.
Have you looked at this and checked to see if you are creating an unbalanced environment with your chart? The ratio may be the same, just fewer options, but I’m not sure.
We did consider that as if you distill the crazy objectives out of the book Maelstrom missions, most of them are “take an objective” or “kill something” which is what we did. As we included Kill Points in each mission as maelstrom missions, too, we hope that it balances out and equally punishes MSU scoring armies as it does benefit them.
well Ive warmed up some crow, after extensive looking at the rules found on page 31,36 and 73 i am now in the camp that if a vehicle fires its ordnance weapon no matter what order it can only snap shoot the rest of its guns
I thought all to hit rolls were still done the same but you resolve wounds one weapon at a time to their max range?
How read it on page 36 you resolve heavy weapon group hits/wounds before moving into anouther one, it even has a caviet to pick your grouping carefully
these chats need an edit button lol
Its okay Novastar you just suck at English. Join the club we have shirts.