Jy2 brings his Triple Turkey Chaos list out to Challenge the Mighty, Mighty Footdar!
Video Battle report: Jy2’s Triple Dragon Chaos vs. Reecius’ Footdar
Jy2 brings his Triple Turkey Chaos list out to Challenge the Mighty, Mighty Footdar!
3 Helldrakes! Jim, we can’t be friends… *kidding*
Triple Dragon is illegal in some states! haha
Noob Reece is Noob! Black mace = fleshbane….JK JK!
No, that was a total n00b move! hahaha
Believe it or not, I actually ran this list not to try to beat his footdar, but rather, to help his eldar improve. If he brings his footdar to a tournament, believe me, he’s going to encounter triple-heldrake lists, which is a common competitive tournament build. He’s got to be able to handle and even overcome this type of list, especially when run by a very good player. Consider this game a test as well as practice game for his eldar. I don’t normally run triple-heldrakes, but I did so deliberately to truly test Reece’s list. And honestly, I was expecting to dominate his eldar.
My list:
[color=red][size=24][b]1750 CHAOS MARINES W/DAEMON ALLIES[/b][/size][/color]
Daemon Prince – Lvl 3, 3+, Wings, Tzeentch, Black Mace, Gift of Mutation – [color=red][i]Doombolt, Warp Speed[/i][/color]
[color=cyan][b]Warlord Trait:[/b][/color] Scoring
Fateweaver – Crap powers other than [color=red][i]Prescience, Terrfiy[/i][/color]
11x Cultists
10x Cultists
10x Pink Horrors
10x Pink Horrors
Heldrake
Heldrake
Heldrake
Daemon Prince – 3+, Wings, Tzeentch, Lvl 2, 1x Greater ([color=red][i]3+ Save[/i][/color], WTF?!?), 1x Exalted ([color=red][i]Grimoire[/i][/color]) – [color=red][i]Prescience, Flickering Fire[/i][/color]
It was a game of back-&-forth, with both of us getting lucky at times. However, what saved Reece’s bacon was NO HELLDRAKES COMING IN ON TURN 2!!!! Then on Turn 3, ONLY 1 HELDRAKE CAME IN!!! :bleep: :bleep: :bleep:
One thought I had if you allow Forgeworld (and this is WAAAY off topic, sorry, but your last comment brought it to me) is to take a Land Raider Proteus which gives your opponent -1 to reserve rolls. Then ally in a CCS with a Master of the Fleet for another -1 to their reserves. Now their fliers are only coming in on a 5+. Could really come in handy for Space Marines vs a Heldrake or 3.
As to this bat rep and being a test for the footdar, I think you’re going to need to run it again and see what would happen if 2 of 3 show up turn 2. That would better measure the matchup.
Bar-B-Que Eldar is what would happen =P
Maybe. You also got pretty lucky in that it was hammer and anvil, which is the only mission you can put models where a heldrake can’t flame them when it comes on.
I’d consider this *the* hard counter to your army and you’re going to need to get some more reps in against a triple-drake list in order to come up with some strategies.
I agree it is the hardest counter. Venom Spam is the only thing that could have been worse, and that is a maybe.
Hammer and Anvil did help a lot, however the Scouring hurt a lot as the stupid Turkey can actually score objectives in that one! haha, not that you needed any further incentive to take one. Honestly, I think I would lost this game more often than not. The Turkey is just too powerful against an army like mine.
As to rolling 2 3+ saves, you don’t need to do that. Rolling for gifts doesn’t work like rolling for psychic powers. You roll as many dice as you have gifts, re-roll doubles, then after you have all unique gifts, then choose to drop one down to the 0 gift.
Meaning, if you have two greater gifts, you roll 2d6, if either is a double, you re-roll it. So, even if one of those dice ends up being the 3+ armor save gift, you can drop that for the 0 gift.
So, you should never have that gift wasted.
I actually didn’t roll 2 3+ saves. I rolled it once but my DP already had 3+ armor.
Still, I forgot that I could’ve traded it in for a Greater Etherblade.
Id personally deepstruck the spiders if you had an autarch and he was deployed that deep. Yea turkeys would have made mince meat of them, but things as they were you could of really of done a number on the princes on the ground and been there to make some contibution rather than just playing too defensive.
Yeah, that could have worked, and if they came on after the Turkeys they may have lasted a few turns. However, I have had good luck with them killing flyers and I was keeping them back to hopefully shoot some down.
This sort of list is why I’m sticking in 6 Swooping Hawks.
Ignores cover large blast is great against the small troop units (+18 pew pew shots) and skyleap (yeah every other turn now) and not scattering Deep Strike means they’re pretty good for tactically avoiding the Turkeys.
Then the Turkey’s get wise, hover, and BBQ your bacon, killing the whole squad by popping daemon forge.
Yup, cos 6 Hawks is all there’d be on the table obviously.
heavy support prince can’t roll on divination table
You’re right. That was a mistake.
I’m so used to running the Lord of Change and rolling on Divination for him. That was a mental fart.
No worries, I missed it, too.
Hahaha, great game. I loved Frankies play-by-play of Reece’s emotions. Don’t let the turkey get you down, son!
Hahaha, I know, right? I hate those damn things SO much!
Great Battle rep guys!
Loved when the serpent got in the turkeys ass!
I don’t always kill those turkeys, but when I do, it’s always in the ass! haha ;P
Reece, I have always played that if any part of my heldrakes’ hull passes over any models in a unit, they can vector strike it. I honestly had never thought about it any other way. The heldrake is its hull, so best I can figure if the heldrake nicks a guy with his wing, he can vector strike that unit. I haven’t got any grief in any tourneys I’ve played in either.
Flyers make the game kinda wonky sometimes with their weird rules and models, especially when you have a flyer that acts like a FMC. I had never seen scoring heldrakes ruled that way, I always assumed that if their base was within 3″ they could score. Is that a BRB ruling or an ITO FAQ ruling?
That also brings to question what y’all do as far as shooting ranges and flyers. Say you are within 3″ melta double pen range with an infernus pistol from the base of the flyer but not within 3″ of the flyer itself, as the flyer is way up high. Do you get the double pen?
As always, great bat rep, enjoy y’all’s stuff a bunch, keep it up!
I play vector-striking the same way as you. The rules don’t say you have to move completely over the unit. It just says you have to move over the unit. Moving over even 1 model in the unit is moving over the unit.
With regards to scoring, the BRB says to measure from the hull, not the base. It’s in there, though I don’t remember exactly where.
As for shooting at it, I believe the BRB says that you can measure either to the base or the model itself. So if your melta is within 6″ of the tip of the heldrake’s wings, then you get the double-melta bonus.
Strangely the BRB(page 8 third para under Line of Sight) specifically states Wings as not being considered part of the model for line of sight. I’ve always used this to mean for models such as Dark Eldar Scourge, Daemon Princes and Flyrants but you could I guess rules lawyer it to refer to fliers too.
Wings count as part of the hull of a vehicle. BRB p.73 (Shooting at vehicles).
Another example is cover and area terrain. You get cover if you are in area terrain (for infantry/MC’s). However, you don’t have to be completely inside area terrain to get the cover bonus. You just need to touch it slightly to get the cover bonus.
Same principle applies to the helturkey.
Hey Grizzly,
The BRB actually states that you measure distance with vehicles (including Flyers) from their hull. As flyers are way up in the air, they are not able to score or contest objectives in the Scouring or Big Guns….except the Turkey whose wings go close to the ground. Flyers are weird as you pointed out as their bases don’t interact with friendly models but they do with enemy models. You measure from the base for embarking or disembarking but to the hull for shooting. It is really weird.
The Vector Strike thing is a PITA as no other model that can vector strike can stop over another model, so really, it only applies to the Turkey. It gives yet another big advantage to the Turkey as it can just barely come over another model and vector strike it while any other model that can vector strike must pass totally over it with 1″ to spare. It makes it much harder to pull off.
Cool beans, I’ll have to keep that in mind. On the flip side, I have had that danged wing keep me from being able to vector strike or land where I want due to its close proximity to the ground putting it within 1″ of enemy models. But hey, it’s a small price to pay for the awesome that is the heldrake/hellturkey/Trogdor the Burninator
While it is fluffy that it should have to pass over completely, I think RAW, if any part of the model flies over the enemy, then it can vector strike it, even if it’s wings end on top of the model it’s vector striking.
It really depends on how you read the word over. It can mean fully or partially. Every other model must pass fully over though, so I would lean towards that interpretation for consistency, but I also hate the Turkey and would love to see it nerfed! haha
Haha, i’m sure you would!
I don’t think you can challenge specific units. You just issue a challenge, then any eligible character can step forward. I can’t find it in the rules at any rate.
It is actually really unclear. In one part it says accept with one of your unit’s characters, in another place it says you accept from the combat at large. I think the implication is that you can pick any character so long as he is eligible to accept the challenge.
I think you should consider a skyshield pad. 4++ and 3+ cover from the legs (hello war walkers). Barrage safety underneath (FW mortars). You could have a large amount of infantry on or underneath where heldrake can’t see. Warp spiders can move off then shoot and then move back on and could even give wraith knight inv if u face heavy las cannons.
Yeah, the Skyshield is pretty dang useful. It’s funny, when 6th ed came out, I thought it was lame, but then I saw how good it could be and realized how wrong I was. The thing is awesome.
Hey great Batrep Reecius, really appreciate your content. I saw you and Franky both using Hellions with Baron and Farseer. How much do you like the unit and how do you think it compares to Dark Eldar Beast Packs?
Hey TableTopJosh, thanks, glad you like the site content!
The Baron/Hellions/Jetseer combo is pretty fantastic. I prefer it to the Beast Pack for several reasons:
1.) It’s a scoring unit. You can’t have too many of these in 6th.
2.) It is fast and durable with stealth, reroll dangerous terrain, possibly Fortune, and a 2++ and a 3+/4++ on characters that can tank wounds, a 35/36 to hit and run and the ability to reroll the dice on the distance, fleet, etc.
3.) It hits surprisingly hard. Prescience was made for this unit. With that and the right combat drugs and/or Doom, this unit will strike before most any other unit and hits hard. They murder high toughness models too, with their poison attacks.
4.) Beautiful models. The rule of cool still applies!
Thanks Reecius, I have alway been confused about casting Eldar powers on DE units. I didnt know you could fortune them!
Yeah man, it’s open game! They are battle brothers and so you can cast all powers on them (previously you couldn’t) as you can with Tau.