Here’s another Video Bat Rep using the 6th ed rumored rules for you all. In this one, Frankie and I give it another go, this time with Crons and Shrike Marines to try out some new rules. Again, we aren’t digging into the competitive match ups yet as we still want to feel our way through the rules and just experiment a bit. We’ll get to the math-ups everyone wants to see in the next game, we just wanted to familiarize ourselves with the lay of the land a bit more.
There are a few things we’d like to see changed, but on the whole, still an amazing rule set, really digging it.
Enjoy the show!
making the unit be stubborn, while awesome, I think just gave reece a brain fart:P. while difficult shooting it to death might have done a better job then the usual mindset of “CC will rip up necrons”
I there had a been a dedicated cc unit available it might have been able to rip them all up, but it wasn’t available.
a dc dread with talons could have done some serious damage, especially ignoring the mindshackle scarabs.
heck even multi tank shocking them and just causing as many ld checks as possible might have been better, one failed check.. poof!
it has got to be the best use of a strategem point for that army, I mean wow:).
some fine tuning on the SP’s really has to be done. as it is no one will want to give up any a lot of the time.
Or it might just be knowing the sp system extremely thoroughly. Having a plan for what your opponent can do with them will help a lot.
Sweet game guys more please:)
Yeah, I rolled poorly too! I thought I could chew through the Crons but they chewed through me! Making that big brick stubborn is incredibly good, wow!
It will take some time to figure out the best tactics in this new ruleset if it is what we get. It is definitely a new game, but still feels like the game we know and love.
Glad you’re enjoying them!
Another awesome batrep! I’m really glad you guys have decided to start doing this with the 6e leakset.
It does look like the monolith has been restored to it’s former glory. However, from what I understand a monolith only has Multi-Targeting (6); and I’m not sure if you factored in a result of a natural 6 on a d6 Penetrating hit roll immediately causes the loss of a structure point.
What I’m really interested in seeing is the effect of the massive change to template weapons, including the 3″ range bump and the Fire-Sweep assault rule. Also it looks like you got to see the first-hand effects of Defensive Fire – as that’s been a huge flashpoint for the discussions regarding the leakset, I was wondering specifically how you felt about it?
From the looks of it, I don’t think I’ll ever play a casual 5e game again if I can help it. How are you guys feeling about 5 vs. 6 so far?
Defensive fire means that deepstriking can back fire in a big way, although really it is just condensing two turns into one. I would have been better off scouting and charging.
Multi-Targeting 6 yes, but it always counts as stationary I believe, so it is multi-targeting 12. It essentially means it can always shoot everything at different targets. It is a brute!
We forgot to apply the -3, just slipped by. We were both tired and didn’t catch that.
Definitely loving 6th ed leaked rules. So much more of a complex game in a good way. I personally hope this is legit.
The rules say Super-Heavies add 6 to their initial SP so doesn’t a monolith actually have Multi-Targeting (7)?
Monolith is ‘heavy’ according to the Necron Codex, not ‘super-heavy’. I’m not seeing where it gets a structure point, just the tank -1 on the damage chart.
Reecius is right on the fact that it always starts the game with MT-12. Every weapon destroyed will reduce that by 2, however.
Unless you have gotten access to something that isn’t in the original leak. 🙂
Reecius and Frankie… keep it up!
Nevermind… I see it below.
Keep up the good work!
Nice game. You can really see a focus on increased troop count within your armylist. Once you were down to just toys, you were at a huge disadvantage.
You asked at one point if the dred would auto-hit the barge. I think there’s a rule that pushes you off 1″ but not sure of the name or if the barge had the rule.
I noticed that you only had troop units scoring objectives. I’m of the mind that any non-vehicle can score a point but that troop choices earn you 3 points. (read seize ground page). I also believe you are playing the contesting thing right. I think it makes killing your opponent or pulling them off the objectives a tactical manuever…and not just standing beside them.
Interesting about the ATSKNF. Going to have to re-read the part where they are auto-killed if within 12″ while breaking. If that’s the truth, then that gives Spaze Mureens a slight advantage in the Leadership/Morale department.
Monolith looks broken as all hell. Definitely fluffy. Acts much in the same way as the Dawn of War video game but oh my…all that for 200pts? 3 is standard under that kind of points advantage. Along with their ability to shrug off the stunned resault and pull reserves through. Again, oh my!
Yeah, agreed on those points. The Lith as it stands is incredibly hard to kill for 200pts. 3 of them is crazy. They just crush everything around them and float forwards shaking off fire. We’ll see if this is legit.
We were wrong on the Overlord dying though, a unit locked in combat can’t “kill” a unit that is falling back.
SO many subtle, small differences!
If monoliths have structure points, then my list for 6th edition will be 2x pharons width res orb, mind shackle scarabs, warscythe , veil cryptek, 20 warriors and 3x monoliths. Get 2 stratagem and do double stubborn. Comes in at 1490
Yup, and if that rule is real, you will dominate people.
Well, as seeing what AV 14 can do, looks like I will need a Macharius Vanquisher. That should kill them super heavies!
I don’t think that Powerswords will be that popular, because it makes him a different armour group, so you can allocate wounds straight to him in CC. Cant do that if the model has a powerfist.
Also, you guys should do a report with super heavies. Not a monolith, but something that is normally seen as Apoc Only (IE, a Baneblade).
Not sure if you have these armies on you guys, but Tau vs Nids would be a good match to see, as they are seen as the “worst” codexs currently.
We have most armies in the shop, and we have a pretty good collection of super heavies. We will try and fit it in. We have a lot of requests though, so please be patient if we can’t get to something right away. Making these films takes a lot of time.
I think the negative Armor grouping in CC is counter balanced by the fact that you can also direct power weapon hits from sergeants; i.e. my power weapon sarge kills the powerfist before he strikes. Powerfists seem to have suffered more just because they always go last meaning Leaders will commonly pick them off asap.
With 6th edition Tau is a great codex again.
Tau can take Grey Knights easily now. (on a side note Grey knights actually got the short end of the stick and Tau the long end) many would argue that Tau suck up 5th and Grey Knights are the best 5th edition codex this is no longer true with 6th edition leak, far more balanced!
The Tau would wipe the Tyranids with an armored list! 6th allows vehicles (especially tanks) to survive SO MUCH LONGER plus Tau have so many pieces of wargear that are really good now it just wouldn’t be a game.
Tau on Orks is probably the only fair (hoard army) match I can think of right now. (Tau VS Imperial Guard or Tyranids is just a massive blood bath) Tau can table people if they go first (with the new rail rules) and if they don’t go first well Reece just told you what happens to people who give away strategy points.
Why is it that the monolith is a super heavy, I cant find it saying that in neither of the two leaked files. Can you quote it or something, perhaps give a page reference?
See Ken’s comment.
p. 117 “Heavy Super-heavy vehicles with a single Structure point are sometimes referred to as ‘Heavy’” The Monolith is Vehicle (Heavy*, Tank, Skimmer).
Yes, we saw that now. Thanks for pointing it out.
Great battle report. Keep them comin’. 🙂 Can’t wait to see the next one.
Glad you liked it!
I’d very much like to see how ‘older’ codexes perform under the new ruleset. Would a matchup with Orks/Eldar/Tau be possible sometime soon? I’ve read a few brief summaries of eldar under the new system but it’d be nice to see it in your nice shiny video batrep style. Eldar vs SoB would be quite exciting methinks…
We cna most certainly try and squeeze that in!
Danke, I look forward to it. Will keep an eye on ze blog – also I see you’ve been doing the rounds at BOLS as well, a busy little 6th-ed gamer!
Yeah, and I write guest article for BoK too, been busy as hell! Glad you’re enjoying thee though, we work hard to get them out there for you guys.
Oh, and just a slight correction, since I can’t find anything in the pancake rules stating that walkers are Intractable, that necron lord (Sadly!) wasn’t destroyed, as the walker was locked in combat.
Yes, I realized that too late. Drats, I needed the moral victory! Hahaha
1) I don’t understand why you say blast can’t deviate the rule is as follows and it also never says to subtract the BS either:
Page 83: “a number of inches equal to twice the result of the roll to hit.”
2) On Tyranids, hormagaunts are not beast so a much smaller charge range.
3) The Space marines with AND THEY SHALL KNOW NO FEAR, should have just regrouped.
page 41: they ignore most everything.
Great reports, needs more tyranids 🙂
We definitely got some rules wrong, but I think it is understandable considering how much there was to absorb and how subtle some of it was. We need to unlearn a lot of stuff, and recording those bat reps while looking things up and trying to run the store gets pretty exhausting. We will continue to improve, though! Glad you liked the reports.
As for blasts, the way I read it is that you roll to it as normal (with BS) but also roll a scatter die. If you miss with the numeric die (roll under BS) the shot scatters double the distance of the miss. So, for a 4+ to hit, you can only scatter 2″ or 4″. We could be wrong though of course, but that is how we read it.
I agree, I misread the scatter part about rolling to hit.
Also on tyranids bidding 3 for frag grenades might be needed now.
Absolutely, that makes Genestealers ever better! Those SPs reallychange the game if they make it into the final rule set.
“2) On Tyranids, hormagaunts are not beast so a much smaller charge range.”
– Hormagaunts aren’t Beasts, but they still have both Fleet and Bounding Leap and each turn they chose one of them. So yeah, they can run 16″ and charge 21″.
Not quite, according to the attached 6th Ed. Tyranids FAQ file:
“Page 38 – Bounding Leap
Hormagaunts have the Fleet and Bounding Leap
movement special rules, but they cannot use both rules
in the same turn. Decide before declaring the Move
action which rule applies for this movement.”
Stupid, since I don’t know why you’d ever NOT use Bounding Leap for a charge, especially as they have Move Through Cover?
I guess you use Bounding Leap for an 18″ Charge and Fleet for a 16″ Run.
Broken units make a fall back move only at the time they break, (move +D6″). They are destroyed if they are within 12″ of an un-engaged enemy unit at the end of their movement phase. Also they may not make Support, Psychic, or Assault actions.
Basically in practice it means that you have to fall back when you’re ‘scared’ to the point that you break but subsequent turns are spent trying to reposition yourself (away from the enemy) to a place where you can rally and come back with a vengeance. A broken unit may leave the table voluntarily, and prevent the enemy from getting Kill Points for that unit.
Thanks for the video, Keep them coming!
Good to know! We definitely played that wrong. So much of the game is now subtly different, it will definitely take some unlearning to absorb it all.
Great Battrep; very informative.
Don’t think strategies overpowered – if his stubborn, shoot don’t charge. As you play more hopefully strategies will come into their own.
You guys are right about the game being deadly; Adds fear and excitement to the game.
You have to think carefully if you don’t want to lose!
Yeah, and the list I brought wasn’t meant to be all that powerful, just trying to show lots of different units and abilities in game.
Another great battle report. I can’t wait to play a game of this myself. My Ork army has lots of 30X boys mobs, and making some of them stubborn would be overwhelming, what with the new rule where you get to make a LD roll to avoid “No retreat” wounds for being Fearless. And I agree that the bidding for strategy points should be secret, but that would benefit experienced poker players. \m/
Yeah, that would be the straight business! Probably a bit much, actually, as you said, but damn that makes them good. Or grenades on bugs or Daemons…some of the SPs are a bit much.
Love the paint on the Necrons. Sweet looking armies.
Thanks!
The speeder exploding couldn’t hurt the dread. It says you roll a D6 for every non-vehicle model with in D6 inches.
Ah, we missed that. We just saw the part where it said critical hit, which does affect vehicles.
Thanks for pointing that out.
The only issue that stands out to me with the system so far is the bidding for stratagems. Since the winner can choose whether to get the stratagem points or first turn, it seems like that could result in absurd escalation, i.e. once you get to certain high number the value of the stratagems will always beat the value of going first, and thus an attitude of ‘always raise’ can evolve.
Make sense? Am I missing something?
Seems like this mechanic needs to remove the option of choosing SP if your the high bidder to maintain balance and keep most games at the 1-3 SP range (guessing).
Yeah, we don’t think the system is complete. There needs to be another line or two of text added in there to round it out completely.
I agree, I was definitely looking at going into a tournament with Reece’s scarab farm list and bidding just so that my opponent couldn’t go first and wouldn’t have time to choose what to take plus 50% I get 833 points and would know exactly what I’m taking them as. in a tournament situation you could really mess with someone by going over 25 or so they would be hard pressed to pick their stratagrams before you were deployed.
I don’t like getting in to the argument about the validity of the rumors, because it’s mostly pointless conjecture.
However, my theory is that it was an intentional leak of 6th Ed. rules by GW, and here’s why. GW had to have been surprised by the community reaction to 8th ed. fantasy. 40k is GW’s flagship game and I think the biggest concern they might have with a new release of 40k is community reaction. If 6th ed is coming out in 3-6 mos., right now is last chance they have to really make any final changes or adjustments, before the expensive process of final production and distribution happens. Of course they don’t want to release they ACTUAL rules, so they release instead s step in the process of play testing with a lot of consistency to the real game. They might have had it formatted to look more real just so people would take it serious (as the community has so far). They also know that the community has a healthy distrust of rumors, enough that such that a questionable document like this won’t be believed 100% or vice-versa, and won;t actually hurt them in any way.
It’s important to note that selective leaking of information from company’s to consumers isn’t a conspiracy theory. Every single major company that sells to the general public and attracts a fan-base actively uses information leaks to achieve a wide range benefits. Everybody from technology companies to hollywood does this. It’s about advertising, but more importantly it’s about managing expectations.
If the community reaction to this becomes very positive (as it seems to), and it’s not a GW product then in the next few weeks, expect GW to make a much more Public Announcement denouncing the rumor. They have to manage expectations.
This explains a lot of things, like why every one’s ‘trusted source’ contradicts each other and why the rules are so good but filled with countless mistakes.
my 2 cents.
That is one of the more rational and reasonable reactions to these rumors I’ve read, and I am in full agreement with you. It just makes sense and it is the most realistic answer to this riddle. All the other answers are far less probably for a host of reasons.
I’m 4 games deep in the leaked rules now, and still feel like the meta of this game will take a long long long time to shake out.
So far it seems like armies will utilize more and bigger troop units, MSU troops are just too easy to extricate from objectives.
Also think you’ll see troops being built to be more versatile, or with armies that have highly specialized units you’ll see people trying to pair off assault units with shooting units on objectives.
Mech in the game does’t seem worse then it is now, but does seem less important. So armies might look to having less overall mech support, maybe just enough to protect against certain threats, and putting the saved points in more foot units and fast assaulting units.
Thoughts?
actually I would venture that mech is much more dangerous, at least tanks, as it is much harder to kill (see damage table) and now that you can consolidate into vehicles at the end of your turn killing mech is very important. Squadrons are no longer penalized and open top no longer means ‘open to destruction’
I did a infantry heavy battle against a mechanized army
(http://secondsphere.org/index.php/topic,130052.msg1488016.html#msg1488016)
my conclusion: Troops are just not strong enough to kill tanks with their standard equipment.
Eg: if you take 15 lascannons on your troops then you count as EV: 1 to fire and your opponent will be hitting you 2+ (there should be some orks celebrating somewhere)
if you take las guns and bolters (or even assault cannons) and try to fire at a vehicle you’re only going to be glancing most of the time, if you hit at all.
6th gives a strong mix, you have to take troops and you have to leave them in the open, but vehicles are harder to kill.
Reese mentioned the strength of the Imperial Guard blob on an objective. allow me to mention a solution:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440276a&
prodId=prod1560028
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440276a&prodId=prod1080131
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440212a&prodId=prod1090581
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440195a&prodId=prod680008a
from a business prospective it makes sense they raised the prices on the vehicle as well as the troops. you have to make something good or else it won’t sell.
Nice report!
I agree that template weapons got crazy destructive. They hardly miss now against most standard EV targets.
I still think Power Blobs will dominate those objectives, but we’ll see. We’re making just that army for our team’s adepticon army, so afterwords we’ll play it in a tournament or two and see how it pans out.
I agree that mech is still quite good, and mech that can drop pie plates will be brutal. I’m not convinced they are actually harder to kill though for these reasons: Reduced cover saves, All tanks can never get better then an EV of 2 so most will get hit on 2+, Yes, tanks get a -1 to the damage chart, but damage effects stack upwards now including ‘Stunned’.
No foot unit can ever be EV 1, only tanks and monstrous creatures.
However, my first impression of the games I’ve had lead me to think that a ‘Mech Dominant list’ will have some potential weaknesses. IG might be an exception to this because of the low cost of mech and units. Here’s why:
• Troops can’t take objectives while embarked (So mech doesn’t offer the same level of protection to scoring units they used too)
• Unit’s take Morale tests EACH time in a phase they take 25% casualties, so MSU troops are not only easier to kill because of lower and harder to attain cover saves, they also have to test potentially multiple times in a single shooting phase (LD 8 starting to look a bit dicey).
• Combats start earlier, and are more dangerous, points invested in Vehicles (including walkers, who are weaker and devoid of many of the same beneficial Close Combat rules from 5th) aren’t going to see the same utility if the primary targets are buried in CC.
My is not suggest that this edition will be footslogging focused either, it’s just that all mech lists typically rely on MSU troops, and think that is tougher in this edition. I suppose all mech strategies will try to cripple an enemy early and take objectives later…
Actually, it says one morale test per shooting phase. Once you’ve passed or failed one, you don’t take any more.
Good little crew you have there!
Nice that you’re taking the time to show us the new ropes, visualize that big hunk of pdf.
I’m so curious about the relationship between Monolith’s heavy and super heavy.
It can’t have a structure point can it? That’s incredible!
And with the better deepstrike? 200 points?
Yeah, too good, honestly. We’ll see what happens when the rules come out but as of now, easily the best tank in the game for the points.
I have just glanced the comments cos Im in a rush but Im pretty sure that heavy destroyers arent as good as you have made out because the ability “preferred enemy” only works when shooting non-vehicle units.
You may be correct, we will double check that. We knew we were going to get a lot of the rules wrong on the first few runs through. We appreciate the corrections, though.
I dont even play 40k but I am planning on getting into it. I thouroughly enjoy watching batreps and found you guys on youtube. What I would want to see is more multiplayer 2v2 free for all everything against stubborn necrons etcetera. Just my 2 cents from a noob beyond noobness
Glad you like the videos and are getting into the hobby! It is super fun and will provide you with many friends and good times. A 2v2 sounds like fun!