So here we have our first test game with the new 6th ed leaked rules (which we believe are legit). Sorry about the shaky camera, we have a new camera man and he was a bit all over the place. He’ll get better with it for sure, though.
Frankie and I loved the new rules. If this is real, the game is much, much better. So much more tactical depth, so much more predictability in the game. It is definitely more tactical, more fun, more cinematic. The game plays like you would imagine it.
I hope this is real, because I love this game. Time will tell, but for now, give this a watch and let us know what you think! If you want to see more of these, let us know. Will wants to try his Daemons out, which we think would be awesome.
Also, as I said in the video, excuse us for any rules errors, it’s a lot of information to process and I know we made some mistakes. If you spot any rules errors, let us know! We’ll be sure to improve as we go. With running the store, and managing all of the other projects we have plus regular life, we didn’t have as much time to pour over the rules as we would have liked.
Just a few quick questions:
A) How long did your game take. You guys keep mentioning how quick the game was.
B) Did the Monolith get to use it’s -3 on the damage chart due to it being a super heavy?
C) is Initiative as important under this rule set as it was in 5th ed?
D) Can we get Sisters for the next video?
A.) We got through a 2,000pt game in about 2 hours and this is with looking up rules constantly. With practice, it will go much faster.
B.) The Monolith is a super heavy? That’s news to us. If so, we missed that rule. Where are you reading that? If so, wow, Monoliths are the business. It was wrecking my face as it was!
C.) Initiative is still very important. That aspect hasn’t changed too much, it will only really tell when you get charged by a low IN unit that hits you when you’re in combat and they alpha strike you.
D.) We can try and get sisters, one of our locals uses them, but I have a feeling more people will want to see other armies, to be honest.
In the Super-Heavy rules, the vehicle type “Heavy” is described as a super heavy vehicle with 1 structure point. 😀
Indeed it does! We missed that, wow, Monoliths are crazy.
Good one. Those rules sure does make the game more interesting.
Please do include a bit of sister action.
Totally agree! I sincerely hope this is what we get.
Wouldn’t it be -4 because it is a Tank, also?
No just -3 (Check the damage table note for tank, also under Super Heavy entry).
If a super heavy suffers a penetrating hit and the roll on the damage table shows a natural, unmodified 6 it loses a structure point (Super Heavy entry).
Those leaked rules say “use either or” (page 114) so you only get the -3 or the -1.
Damn, that’s nuts! We missed that and a lot of things, we’ll play another game soon to give it another go.
This defiantly changes the game, and seeming for the better. Rapid Fire gets a HUGE boost! It’s awesome. Terminators will be better as well with the deep strike and relentless rules. Psycannon Terminators in GK.. 4-5 Attacks on the Charge. (Banner Paladin)..
Twin-Linked bolters are now better at 18 instead of just 12 in.
I’m glad you guys did Nids and Necrons first, two ‘Destroy the galaxy’ races. I’m excited for Deamons and a Space Marine Chapter (any dex). I don’t think Deamon vs GK’s would be good as a test, not at first anyway.
Good job guys, that was awesome. I’d like to see an entire heavy action game cycle filmed (Probably not the rule lookup parts..), as you explain what you’re doing and how it works to give us a better grasp.
Glad you liked it! We missed a lot of stuff, but that’s to be expected. We were figuring a lot of it out as we went.
Everything got better, the game is just deadlier now.
If the games are going faster, then I see ‘Ard Boyz going up to 3K. Which means everyone will have to buy more toys. Didn’t fantasy ‘Ard Boyz go to 3K with 8th edition?
I could see that, and I think it would be awesome. We’d have super heavies I bet!
Nah, the most common tournament standard in Fantasy went up ~250 points from 2250 to 2500 points in 8th ed.
Wow,
the early game looks a lot more deadly under these probable new rules.
I really hope this is a legit early draft of 6th ed as I’m liking what I’ve seen.
I’m not so sure I like how big the charge distances are under these rules but I’m sure with a couple more playtest games under your belt we’ll all get a good idea of how that effects the ballance of the game.
Keep up the good work – Grey Knights vs Deamons next please!
Thanks, glad you liked it! We’ll be using Daemons next for sure, but the opponent we aren’t sure on.
I LOVED this battle report!
-Two armies I own
-Playing with the “leaked” rules
-It was very entertaining (you guys were funny and excited)
The only problem? Wintermute (the main Moderator on Warseer) posted that the leaked rules are 100% fake. In fact, they are so fake, for the first time in history GW will be sending emails to their stores explaining that these rules are not genuine. Check the thread out:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6029583#post6029583
No one can produce those emails though, it’s not like the emails are super secret.
They said the emails were going out sometime this week so they may not have arrived yet, but who knows. They may have also gone to regional managers who would then call the stores. Also, I don’t believe a GW employee would risk their career over copying and pasting the body of the email on the interwebz.
Actually, Wintermute is saying that in order to allow talk of the leak and not get in trouble. And its not the first time they have denied rumors; remember Space Hulk? They said that the mystery release would not, could not, and will not be Space Hulk. How’d that turn out 😉
Actually, he’s not. Read the thread. And yes, I remember Space Hulk, and I don’t ever remember them “officially saying” that the mystery box was not Space Hulk. I was on Warseer, Dakka Dakka, and BoLS during all of that and none of the main rumor sources said anything like that: it was all word of mouth from random interwebz trolls.
If they are a fake, that’s sad in one way but good in another. If it’s a fake the community could get together to build upon this rule set, tweak it, and have an “Open Source” 40k Rule set that’s thus far proved to be an improvement on 5th ed.
That’s one of several ‘rumored denials’ I’ve read, but nobody actually has a letter. Even so, misinformation would only serve GW’s purposes even better.
Sure, no one has a letter YET, but as I said above, I don’t think anyone’s going to risk their career over trying to get it posted when it gets sent out, if it’s not just a phone call anyways.
And yes, misinformation would serve their purposes especially with the LotR/Hobbit license issue. I just don’t think Warseer’s wrong on this. They’re usually not.
Then what’s the point of the email? Send it out to all the store managers so they can not do anything with it?
How do we know that the LotR license is an issue? That’s another rumor as well.
Guess we’ll all just have to hurry up and wait. Also, did you get the link about your list I posted in the comments a few days ago?
No I didn’t. Where did you post this link, and what’s it to?
Here’s a really brief Bat Rep on your Vanilla Marine list.
http://perturbatory.blogspot.com/2012/01/battle-report_10.html
Need to test it again, but I really liked it. It’s deadly flexible 🙂 Was thinking the other day that I may throw Vulkan in it to off set the low BS for the Scouts. 🙂
Pretty cool, though I do wish your opponent didn’t have to call it so early.
Also, I’m interested to see how Vulkan enhances the army, but I do like the Stubborn benefit granted by Lysander. Not sure what it all does in 6th, but in 5th it’s pretty hot.
Oh yeah, regular marines got a much needed boost! I am very excited to see how all the combination play out and I actually hope they leave the SM book alone for a while so we can play it for the first time in the 6th ed ruleset.
Sorry. Missed your reply in here. Tried here first because blogger will not let me open that artcle on your page. It loads then gloes blank. It’s drving me crazy. Worse yet, no solution exists 🙁
Stubborn is pretty nice, and Lysander is a squad unto himself. Just trying to think of how to get the most out of that list. Twin-linked Melta goes a long way 🙂 Also, doesn’t he Twin-link the Flamestorm Cannons on the Land Raider? That could be pretty devestating as well.
Though, truth be told, I just got his model and am excited to use it in a list 🙂 Paid $29 after shipping to get the bastard.
And why OH WHY is there no option to subscribe to comments on this site. That’s a change I’d love to see, Reecius!
Yeah, we’re working on that, and an RSS feed. If you know of a way to implement that, we’d be grateful to hear it!
Sorry. Coding isn’t my cup of tea. Glad you guys are aware it’s a desired feature and are working towards it, though. 🙂
I will look into it. WordPress is ultra flexible, I am sure there is some code out there I can plug into this.
Yeah the “its fake email”…
Is it the same kinda of email that GW send to everyone to say that the Black box back in 2010 wasn’t the new Space Hulk?…,oh yeah it was!
Nice Battlerep!, some of the video battle reps i saw thus far where really boring, this one was kinda fun.
Hope that one of the next battlerep you guys do will involve CSM, i’m dying to see how CSM fare under 6th!
Again, I was on BoLS, Warseer, and Dakka Dakka during all of that Mystery Box nonsense, and there were no “official denials” from GW. It was word-of-mouth from internet trolls. The actual rumor sources said no such thing.
Actually, I worked at a game store when Space Hulk was released and we were told by our GW rep it would not be Space Hulk, no way no how!
Exactly! I think it will be very interesting to see what we really get.
Glad you liked it!
We’re hearing both things, but I feel it is real for a lot of reasons. Time will tell!
I’d definitely like to see Dark Eldar as the rules seem to complement their speed.
Frankie just got a Tantalus, so as soon as he gets it painted, we may have to do that!
For the next battle, do a competitive GK build against Daemons. If it’s even close, than it will have come a long way. 🙂
Agreed 100%. A competitive GK build against any form of Daemons would be VERY interesting under the leaked rules.
We’ll definitely work that into the line-up. With the new rules, it won’t be remotely as lopsided of a battle.
Awesome, would love to see more of 6th. So much going on.
We’re working on more as we speak!
Great battle report,loved it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Sweet game guys, yeah, the whole, if your armour is 14 buzz you take -1 on the damage charts thing sounds nasty, trying to wreck Landraiders and monoliths will take some serious combined fire.
My vote for next fight BA please with death company.. storm raven and maybe a deep striking landraider.. gosh, it might actually be worth doing:)
also quick question, do assualt ramps allow you to assualt[not just engage] out of the vehicle?
Yeah, we knew about the -1 on the chart, we just forgot it.
They can only make a combat or engage move.
Thanks for making this video! I really would like to see more 6th ed games for sure.
I’m not overly keen on having to have units camp on objectives all game, it’ll be the final nail in the coffin for my mechdar they’ll have to turn into a hybrid list and it’ll completely screw over my wych cult. Oh well I’m sure I’ll adapt.
I think DoA Blood Angels list would be really awesome to watch (I’d be more worried about them than daemons atm). Also as I play Eldar I’d like to see them in action, it’d be a good way to test out psychic powers in 6th too!
Can you guys try out some flying units (infantry as well not just vehicles) if possible, please? 🙂
DoA got a LOT better! Way better. They play like you would imagine them to, now if these rules are true.
And yeah, we’ll try some fliers. We’ve got a lot of requests, so bear with us!
Also we played it wrong, you can score objectives if you are in 3″ of a marker, you can’t be contested!
Great battle guys! Nice to see things in action and hear your views on these alternate rules.
I was troubled at first by the turn cycle swap of moving assaults prior to shooting, but I see now that it’s actually a VERY clever way of solving one of the greatest ironies of 40K – that often times the safest place to be for infantry is in close combat.
Now if you wipe out an enemy unit in your turn it leaves you exposed to return fire in their turn. If you don’t wipe out the enemy and remain locked in combat you’re vulnerable to an ‘Alpha Strike’ counter charge slamming into you at I 10. An gamble that can be as punishing as it is rewarding.
My only quibble about this is how it affects infantry with Assault shooting weapons? What is the point of having short-ranged shooting weapons (shotguns, shuriken catapults) if you can no longer shoot prior to assaulting?
I’m aware that if you ‘Engage’ an enemy and wipe them out you can shoot afterwards. Is there a rule that if you ‘Charge’ an enemy an wipe them out you can fire with Assault classified weapons afterwards? That would make them worthwhile – Charge a unit, wipe them out, shoot other nearby unit that threatens to return fire at you next turn.
My Tyrant’s Legion Guard Cohorts with Shotguns and Laspistols want to know!
Those are factored into your charge. Assault weapons can grant extra attacks or be fired into the combat depending on circumstance (IIRC). That means flamers and plamsa pistols are going to be huge assets.
There is no rule to allow you to shoot after a Charge move. In fact it specifically prohibits you from executing any Shooting or Stationary actions.
The nice thing about Assault weapons is that they now count as a secondary close combat weapon. This will grant you an extra attack in Assault assuming you have another CCW.
Here’s something interesting I saw. You can only direct your close combat attacks against units that were engaged with you at the start of the fight. To quote:
Models that were engaged with more than one
enemy unit at the start of the fight may split their
attacks freely between those units. Declare how
they are splitting their attacks before rolling to
hit.
What I take this to mean is that if you are continuing an Assault against Unit A and Unit B Alpha Strikes you (hitting at I10) you can’t direct any of your attacks against them for that turn. You need to wait for the next Assault phase to be able to hit them.
By shooting, I meant in a figurative sense. Pistols give you an AP 5 attack in combat and Plasma Pistols are rending. See the chart next to pistols on pg. 75 for more. Also, look at Fire Sweeps (pg 63)
Where are you reading that? Pg 66 says they specifically can shoot if they made an engage move even if they were in close combat.
That would be after a combat has been resolved. We’re discussing what your shooting weapons can do for contributing to assaults.
You can’t shoot bolt pistols, then assualt anymore. Now you count the number pistol weapons you have as extra combat attacks with that weapons shooting profile (as I understand it). So, pistols show 2 stat lines; one statline is for shooting and the other for close combat. Plasma pistols are rending in close combat; combine that with higher evasion and assault marines no longer blow super hard.
Were glad you guys enjoyed the battle report so much. We will be doing another one today and hopefully get more of the rules right this time :/ sorry for the mix up on some of the rules but it was our first game. Make sure to check out the new battle report tomorrow it will be featuring Deamons.
YAY!
Glad to hear it. Can you say yet who they’ll be fighting?
I think we’ll be trying a stock standard Marine list, actually, to see how much they got boosted.
Vanilla Marines? Also, I was wondering if you’d try running some of the less common HQ’s now that they aren’t ID’d from power fists. Be nice to see what they can do when you don’t have to worry about shielding them the whole game. For instance, a whole Vanilla Marine army with fleet under it’s new use? Scary.
Question:
I don’t see where enemy units contest objectives anymore, I think if you just have a unit within 3″ you get the points enemy present or not?
We read it the same way.
Note that Hormagaunts have a maximum charge range of 18″.
They are not beasts. They are infantry, meaning that they have a base move of 6″. Now while they have both the Fleet and Bounding Leap rules, the companion FAQ/update document mentions that they only get to use one at a time, so they can either use Bounding Leap and triple their 6″, or their Fleet and double their 8″. That means a charge range of 18″ at most. Not 24″. Not 27″.
I didn’t see the glaring Tyranid weakness to pinning come up. Without Fearless (2) they have to test (on the terrible base Leadership you see in Gaunts and the Hive Guard, for instance) or lose the ability to run/charge and lose the ability to grant cover saves to the models behind them, such that pinning the Gaunts at the front leaves the more valuable troops behind swinging in the wind.
I’m also a mite confused by the lack of S10 in that Necron list, since S10 now deals an extra wound to every Tyranid monstrous creature out there (S = T+4). Even a Tachyon Arrow somewhere would mess up a Trygon’s day.
I think what really sped up the game was movement. 3e onwards has had two movement phases (the other one being the assault phase), and a third if you count running in the shooting phase. Moving takes a long time with 40k units. Cutting that down to one will naturally have a huge effect.
We are aware of the mistakes we made. That was our first go through things and we knew we would make some mistakes. We appreciate the pointer though, as with more eyes on the rules, we’ll all benefit from a better play test.
We didn’t bring competitive lists on purpose. We just brought essentially what was painted, and what would use a lot of different rules. We weren’t trying to tailor lists or anything, we were just trying to get our heads wrapped around the rules.
The movement REALLY speeds up the game, as we mentioned. Instead of moving models multiple times, you largely only move them once.
Another thing I just noticed in my own play test:
1. Dreadnoughts get hit in rear armor in CC (there seems to be a lack of walker CC rules except WS, so maybe just forgot to be put in)
2. I think, Monstrous Creatures count has having two weapons if they have an assault weapon, so +1 A (See page 79, 93, and 101)
Yeah, if these rules are the real thing, this must be a draft as there are a number of little omissions like that that seem to be mistakes. Like nothing being able to contest? That would appear to be a mistake.
I like what I have seen from this rule set a lot and if this is 6th edition I might start playing again. Unfortunately it does not look like it fixes some of the biggest issues with the Tyranids which is nearly everything in the codex being overpriced, slow, and with poor saves.
I disagree to a point. Nids got a lot of options with reserves and deployment, and SPs can really shore up some of their weaknesses (grenades!). They also have excellent objective camping units and the increased predictability in speed, and how it gets easier to kill vehicles with massed attacks all help them, IMO. Plus, one of their biggest weaknesses has been addressed in the changes to Instant Death. Time will tell of course, but I really like how this boosts Nids.
Have some of the older codexes been testes? Such as Black Templar, Eldar, 3rd Edition Kroot Mercenaries lol