Here’s a list I have been toying with that I thought would be good for some conversation.
I love Dark Eldar. The models are amazing, the fluff is compelling, the art is great, and I really dig the play-style.
So far we have seen that they are holding up very well in a competitive setting, too. At Comikaze and Duelcon, DE were performing admirably. They have the tools to face all of the increased infantry heavy armies were seeing these days, speed, and plenty of scoring options. Plus, with the access to plentiful and cheap Dark Light weapons, they can easily bring enough anti tank to deal with the occasional AV14 spoiler list.
They also have brutal assault units in Incubi and Harlies. Wyches really got hamstrung with the new assault rules (Overwatch brutalizes them) but I think a savy player could still make them work with some effort and being a cheap 4++ meat shield for a combat character in assault is really useful.
Archone are the business, no surprise there.
However, with Eldar allies, DE really come to the forefront. Doom + DE = Uber Pwnage. Being able to increase the efficiency of poison weapons and agonizers by 50% is amazing. That power alone makes taking Eldar allies worthwhile, but combine that with fast, cheap scoring units (Jetbikes), Fire Dragons with their inherent AT plus how incredibly potent they make Quad Guns, and Runes of Warding, and I would go so far as to say that they are a necessity in a true TAC DE list.
Here is the list I have been toying with:
| Dark Eldar | 1750pts | ||
| Unit | Description | Size | Cost |
| HQ | |||
| Archon | Husk Blade, Soul Trap, H.Grenades, C.Drugs | 1 | 150 |
| Baron | 1 | 105 | |
| Farseer | Runes of Warding, Doom | 1 | 95 |
| Troops | |||
| Warriors | S.Cannon, Shredder | 10 | 105 |
| Raider | Splinter Racks, Night Shields | 1 | 80 |
| Warriors | S.Cannon, Shredder | 15 | 145 |
| Wyches | Hekatrix, Agoniser | 8 | 110 |
| Raider | Aether Sails, Shock Prow | 1 | 70 |
| Hellions | Helliarch, Agonizer | 14 | 249 |
| Jetbikes | 3 | 66 | |
| Elites | |||
| Fire Dragons | Exarch, Pike, Crack Shot, Tank Hunters | 5 | 120 |
| Fast Attack | |||
| Heavy Support | |||
| Ravager | 1 | 105 | |
| Ravager | Disentegrators | 1 | 105 |
| Razorwing | 1 | 145 | |
| Fortifications | |||
| Aegis | Quad Gun | 1 | 100 |
| Totals | 64 | 1750 |
The Archon is a beat stick with the ability to power up to a juggernaut if he kills a few IC’s of MC’s. The Baron gives you incredible utility, +1 to go first and Hellions as troops, whom I love. They are very good at shooting and assault, not top notch, but good enough at both to make them a threat to pretty much any army’s support units. Their speed allows them to get there and their scoring status makes them an all around great unit. He rides with the Wyches in a Raider with the Doomseer. The Doomseer, obviously, casts Doom.
Warriors have turned out to be a fantastic scoring unit in 6th ed, in our experience. Frankie and I have been talking a lot about using Warriors in Raiders with Splinter Racks as a great AI unit, plus a Dark Lance for AT duty, plus speed and scoring power. The 15 man unit plays midfield, they can man the Quad Gun, hold a backfield objective or move upfield to take one. They can be joined by the Baron or the Doomseer to give them a boost. For relatively few points, they provide a lot of utility and increased durability over the 10 man units.
The Jetbikes do their thing: reserve and grab objectives late game, hiding in Purge the Alien.
As mentioned, the Hellions are a free safety unit, plugging gaps, hunting support units, taking objectives and in general just being useful.
The Friedragons hunt tanks in most missions, and man the Quad Gun when Fliers are present. With Tank Hunter and Crack Shot, they are pretty much one shot, one kill on damn near any flier in the game.
Heavy Support has a Ravager of each flavor (the Disintegrater Ravager is a great tool for taking down MCs and heavy infantry). The Razorwing is a great tool for taking down other Fliers, Tanks and Infantry. The Void Raven is a solid choice too, but the flexibility of the Razorwing is what wins it for me. Why this Flier doesn’t have Vector Dancer is beyond me, but hey, it is still damn good.
This list to me has all of the tools you need to succeed in 6th. I have my heart set on making a DE army at some point (after my Nids, TAC MArines and Orks, hahaha) and as of now, this is the list I am feeling the most confidence in.
What do you all think?
Does the Archon have a shadowfield for 150?
Yes, sorry, I must have forgotten to write that in. Thanks for the catch.
I like most of it there are some bits I don’t like (such as the Hellions and the Shredders). I’ve found Hellions to fall apart under a stiff breeze, don’t get me wrong the Baron is great but I tend to use him allied to Eldar (4+ cover fortuned wraithguard) not the other way round. Shredders I think are good on foot troops but in raiders not so much. If you move 12″ they can’t fire. Only other issue I see is Doomseer can’t ride in the transport. Its similar to the list I’ve been running at 1500pts of late:
Hamonculus
Farser – Doom, Runes of Warding
12 Warriors – Blaster, Dark Lance (Haemonculus and Doomseer here)
5 Wyches – Haywire, Dual Cannon Venom with Night Shields
5 Wyches – Haywire, Dual Cannon Venom with Night Shields
3 Allied Guardian Jetbikes
3 Trueborn – 2 Splinter Cannons, Dual Cannon Venom with Night Shields
3 Trueborn – 2 Splinter Cannons, Dual Cannon Venom with Night Shields
5 Allied Fire Dragons – Exarch, Fire Pike, Crack Shot, Tank Hunters (only use the Fire Pike bnecuase my model is armed with it)
Ravager – 3 Lances, Night Shields
Ravager – 3 Lances, Night Shields
Razorwing Jetfighter – 2 Lances, stock missiles, flickerfield
Aegis Line with Quad Gun
Mine relies on the obviously fragile venoms a lot but I’ve found with movement and night shields you’re out of rapid fire range of things you worry about the most (ie boltguns). Drop Pods can be a hassle though. I think if I was upping to your points level an Archon and Incubi would find their way into my list.
Good catch on the Shredder! I totally forgot about that. We run Warriors a lot on foot, and it is a great buy there, but we have been talking a lot about going back to Raiders lately as the larger squad size, Dark Lance and Splinter Racks are really appealing, and so we just transplanted the foot squad we’ve been having success with into the Raider, and forgot how the rules interact with blast weapons. I will have to change that.
Venoms are excellent, no doubt. They provide staggering mobility and AI firepower for the points (I know my Nids absolutely hate them) but the small unit sizes melt. You get around this be going with an MSU build (as you have done) but I would guss you have trouble holding objectives against armies that can weather your AI firepower (Chimera IG comes to mind). The larger squad sizes can take some firepower and stick around, but, you lose some firepower in doing so. I think there is a good case to be made for either style of build.
We read the rule for ICs in allied transports as so long as they are joined to a unit that has the transport, they can get into it. The BRB states that an IC joining a unit becomes a part of it for all rules purposes, which overrides the limitation on allies entering into allied transports.
As for the good old Firepike, as a long time Footdar player, I honestly wouldn’t play without it! I can’t count the amount of times that extra 6″ has saved my bacon. YMMV of course, though.
For the Hellions, I have seen them do nothing but shine this edition. They’re so versatile. While they aren’t a true hammer unit at all, they have all the tools they need to disrupt the backfield, hunt support units, and shred tanks. I like them a lot, plus I dig the models. They remind me of the old He-Man movie I loved as a kid with Dulf Lungren in it! haha
I think your reading of the ability to embark in an allied transport is definitely incorrect. The BRB says that they become a part of the unit, however there is a very specific rule in the book that says “However, note that not even Battle Brothers can embark in allied transport vehicles.” This follows the previous rule about them being part of the unit, and is a very clear exception to the “and so on.”
I see your argument, but I would counter with the same argument I made previously, that an IC joining a unit becomes a part of that unit for all rules purposes. To me, that seems quite clear that an IC, even if allied, becomes a part of that unit, therefore counting as a unit from the allied codex allowing them to embark on a transport.
The rule about not even battle brothers being able to enter a transport would apply to any other circumstance (IMO) where an allied unit is attempting to embark on a transport not from their codex.
I believe that if you follow a train of logic, the order of operations would be:
1.) Allied IC joins a unit of Battle Brothers. IC now becomes a part of that unit for all rules purposes.
2.) Unit then attempts to embark on Battle Brothers’ transport.
3.) Unit is not violating any of the exemptions for being able to embark as allied IC now counts as a part of the unit for all rules purposes.
4.) Unit embarks.
To me, that is the correct interpretation.
The only way that logical path works is if the IC ceases to be a battle brother when it joins the unit. If you believe that is the case, then the flow can continue after step 1. However, if the IC remains a battle brother (which is what I believe), the clear exemption that battle brothers may never enter allied transports is unavoidable.
I don’t think he ceases to be a battle brother, he just counts as a part of that unit for all rules purposes, which means he counts as a part of the squad for the purposes of embarking on a transport. I believe that rule overrides the normal exemption for battle brothers. The use of the words “for all rules purposes” is very powerful as it is an inclusive statement. To me, it is quite clear.
I agree with Chip Reece. I’m sorry, but you are wrong. It doesn’t matter if the IC becomes part of the unit or not, he does not cease to be an ally, a battle brother, or a unit from a completely different codex. Being a part of the unit does not remove any of those designations, and the rule is very clear that such a unit cannot embark on an allied transport.
I’m not making the argument that he stops being a battle brother at all. Just that while joined to a unit he benefits from that unit’s status. It is the same reason Vect (or any DE character) benefits from Fortune while attached to an Eldar unit.
This reminds me of the ongoing comedy around fortune and Vect.
I still don’t want to believe that he stops being a Dark Eldar unit, even though he is attached to an eldar unit. And there is a specific FAQ ruling blocking fortune being cast on Dark Eldar units…
Yeah, that is another one that really gets people riled up. And while I hate it and think it is really OP, again, the rule is quite clear to me that it does work that way.
Wyches have always been OK in combat–at best they were a tar pit against most units, due to the 4+i. However, in 6th, their role is clearly anti-tank. Put a unit of 5 with haywire grenades in a venom, go after tanks. They slaughter tanks like there’s no tomorrow. I usually have all vehicles destroyed by turn 3, running 3 of those wych/venom units. And they’re super cheap.
Remember hellions are jump pack troops, with a base strength boost and a possible combat drug strength boost making them hideous against vehicles in combat, and generally nasty against other troops in combat.
If you’re taking the baron, put him on the quad gun. Any savvy flyer-fielding opponent is going to take the quad gun out on the first turn anyway, so purchasing a unit of fire dragons with a bunch of upgrades solely for the purpose of manning the quad gun is silly. The army doesn’t need anti-tank (seriously–wyches with haywire are all you need).
If you’re taking an anti-flyer flyer, the void raven seems like a clearly better choice. It has higher armor (thus more survivable), and the void lance is a better choice than the dark lance against enemy flyers.
You are underestimating the power of the disintegrator cannon against light tanks, but otherwise you are correct, it’s hideous against MC, TEQ, and bikes also–I killed a unit of 8 bikes in first turn from 2 disintegrator ravagers.
Personally I’m not a fan of the dark lance ravager in this edition. Again, I think there are better anti-tank choices in the list, and the amount of firepower the disintegrator ravager puts out is incredible.
So I kind of shelved my warriors in this edition, just because I really love the wyches, I almost always take a haemonculus and wracks, and I like hellions in the troops slots also.
Now–the key thing to remember is it’s up to your playstyle. For me, I like zooming across the board with the wyches and incubi, getting them stuck in and slaughtering stuff, while I’m floating at 25+” range with the ravagers, scourges, using them to shoot the crap out of the stuff I’m not assaulting. So, if the list above suits your playstyle, then go with it!
I agree about the Wyches never being all that hot in combat. Frankie used to get really frustrated with them last edition. To me they have always been a 4++ shield for the VERY choppy DE Characters. And yes, they murder vehicles with those Haywire Grenades, that is so true. And, you nailed it, they are cheap as chips, plus a scoring unit.
I agree about hellions, too. I love them. They have impact hits, drugs, +1 strength, good shooting, good assault (not great at either, bug good enough at both to threaten dang near any unit in the game). They too, as you noted, shred most vehicles.
I hesitate to commit the Baron to a quad gun as you lose a lot of what makes him so useful: stealth, HnR on Hellions and pretty dang good assault (he womps on vehicles). The Firedragons aren’t ONLY for the quad gun. They are there for the instance when you need them on the quad gun (and a high strength, long range gun that ignores cover is pretty brilliant). If you are facing an army where you don’t need them on the gun, they are a mobile anti-everything unit. Mass strength 8 is awesome. I know in my Footdar list, the Dragons always, always kicked ass. They are good at shooting anything.
I totally agree on the Wyches being awesome AT though, and I think they can fill the role well, but nothing in the game shoots the quad gun as well as a Firedragon Exarch or Fuegan.
I agree on the Voidraven. It is a tough choice between that and the Razorwing. I like both a lot. As you noted, the Voidraven is tougher, and hits harder against other flyers, but the Razorwing is more versatile. Honestly, I will have to play test it to see what I like more, but in theory, I think I will prefer the increased flexibility of the Razorwing.
And yeah, those Disentegrators are the business! I prefer them honestly, but my list has a decided lack of ranged AT, and you need quite a few Dark lances to make them reliable. Against AV11 and down though, I totally agree with you that they are fantastic. Volume of fire is so good in a game of dice.
Funny that you are saying you prefer the Wyches to the Warriors as almost everyone else I talk to has taken the exact opposite stance. As you run them in a dedicated AT role though, it makes sense. I LOVE Warriors this edition, to me they are one of the best scoring units out there in terms of points efficiency. I have really been enjoying the way they play.
I like a very eclectic play style. I like having units that can do everything, as it makes me feel like I am really playing the game. I have in the past made armies that did one thing to an extreme (shooting, assaulting, deep striking, etc.) and while good, i simply don’t enjoy playing them as much. That is why my lists tend to have a bit of everything. I do like aggressive lists, though, and it sounds like you do as well!
Thanks for your input, you had some good ideas there.
The baron and about 15 hellions is the final arguement in skirmishing units. The baron provides stealth and skilled rider not to mention that shadow field and makes hellions troops. So you’ve got a horde of physically large (read anti-flyer board control) jump troops that shoot twice at 24″ and ignore dangerous terrain. They should always be in cover and shooting something. Oh did I mention they have hit and run at a DE initiative? I like the stun claw. Shooting a unit, assaulting then hit and running on your opponents turn pulling along any IC (like a cryptek) is an amazing tactic.
I agree with this all the way. You and I have theorized this unit out and I have seen it played to excellent effect in competitive play, myself.
Have you considered the Archon with a Venom blade and PG launcher instead of the husk blade and soul trap accompanied by 4 Incubi in a venom with your favorite upgrades?
It’s a smaller, cheaper but deadlier group. In some cases 4 Incubi are more robust than 8 wyches anyway.
Yes I know I’m not leaving room for the farseer, though if you want you could drop an Incubi for him. However, I think that including him as a buff character is a strategic mistake based on the following points:
1) Farseer serves two critical roles: counter enemy psykers and buff your close combat team. These are discrete non synergistic functions, like taking a power sword on a devastor sergeant.
2) Any transport you can put in him in will be flimsy
3) First blood is important
C) Every game that group will receive a hail of bullets on the opening turns due to it’s high target priority. Much better to keep it inexpensive.
Now the Farseer in with the the warriors is a good one.
The dakka discussion on this IC BB embarking into transports ambiguity.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/462502.page
My personal reading of the two sides on this argument is that argument against allowing BB to embark is the stronger one. “treating as a part of the unit” doesn’t cause other special rules to go away, why would BB in particular be affected in this way?
You make a good point about the unit being a bullet magnet, that is very true. I think with an army like DE, you have to assume you are going to give up First Blood pretty frequently. The Baron helps to mitigate this be increasing your odds of going first.
I like Venom Blades quite a bit actually, but with Doom I prefer the lower AP of the Husk Blade as the reroll really helps to offset the low strength. I love Incubi, too. They’re brilliant models. I will have to give them a go, actually.
As for the rules debate, I see the argument both ways, but as I read it, it is very clear. As I stated in another post, the words “for all rules purposes” is very powerful, and on a semantic basis will override other rules that lack such strong verbiage.
It’s a good list, but I feel like a pure, more classic DE army like the one I run (6 Venoms, 3 Ravagers, 2 wych squads, Splinterborn, blasterborn) would have a field day. I’m sure a good player could make it work, but there are quite a few bad matchups.
Two questions as my Christmas present was Dark Eldar and I have not finished reading the Codex. But in looking at the above comments I started thinking that a farseer, 3 jetbikes and 3 war walkers with scatter lasers would be nice. The war walkers would provide that punch needed to protect my deployment zone. And would make it even harder for the opponent to prioritize targets.
Also, what about a Humonculus and 9 incubi in a raider to rush out and extend friendly I5 and AP2 greeting to the terminators / monstrous creatures / wraiths / fate weaver?
Just considering the possibilities and would like your input please.
War Walkers, Jet Bikes and a Farseer are some of the all around best units in the game right now, so you really won’t go wrong with those.
A Haemi with Incubi is cool for the FnP, but the Incubi don’t have grenades, so they kind of need to have a character with a Phantasm Grenade Launcher to take advantage of their high initiative. I would say an Archon would be the better bet.
I love playing Dark Eldar, this is kind of my “basic” opinion of them at 1750:
with allies stuff changes of course. ill post that later, but its not hard to squeeze the basics in.
1750 Pts – sDm Kabal
1 Baron Sathonyx, 105 pts ( Warlord)
1 Haemonculus, 85 pts (Webway Portal x1)
3 Kabalite Trueborn, 152 pts (Blaster x3; Haywire Grenades)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)
3 Kabalite Trueborn, 121 pts (Splinter Cannon x2)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)
5 Wyches, 125 pts (Haywire Grenades)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannon)
10 Kabalite Warriors, 170 pts (Splinter Cannon x1)
1 Raider (Splinter Racks)
10 Kabalite Warriors, 170 pts (Splinter Cannon x1)
1 Raider (Splinter Racks)
14 Hellion, 224 pts
5 Beastmasters, 280 pts
10 Khymerae
1 Clawed Fiend
4 Razorwing Flocks
1 Ravager, 105 pts
1 Ravager, 105 pts
1 Ravager, 105 pts
Total Roster Cost: 1747
Nice list!
I have to ask though, why the WWP? With the changes to 6th, they seem to really have lost their oomph. How do you use them? I love Beastpacks too, and that is rad to see you using them.
Also, do you find your troops are too easily destroyed?
Where does the Haemmi go?
Do you run any disentegrators on your Ravagers or all lances?
The wwp is to deliver undamaged hellion unit (that might be in deepstrike reserve.)
the haemonculus deploys with the beasts, or the blasterborn, or with the hellions. its good to give the beasts that first pain token so its that much easier to get to fearless. unless its killpoints he can do whatever he likes usually after dropping the wwp. he is useful to move tokens around late game or early game if you roll 6 for drugs if you are into that business.
i have found that the 10 man warrior units live to shoot and score most of all games. the beast unit is a beast to deal with. i hate the naked 5 man wych squads vs warriors instead but they have been more than awesome AT lately. the trueborn could also just be blaster warrior units but bao mission format seems to allow a little less troop and a little more pew pew.
seems like the lances are necessary vs disentegrators especially to ensure first blood and to take out fortifications at range. i have ran 1 or 2 ravagers in 6th with them but prefer lances. mostly anything you want to kill with ap2 you can drown in poison and the AT shots are needed more.
Hmm, some very good insights, thanks. When I get around to finally getting my army finally up to table top standard, I will have to mess around with a variety of builds as I see so much room for synergy. Plus with Eldar allies, they really have so much they can do.
Don’t forget how awesome the Cronos is coming out of a WWP. Yes that is correct I said cronos! That guy is largely considered trash so will be ignored early on but if you reread his weapons, in foot based 6th that guy evaporates MEQ units and throws pain tokens out like a pedophile on Halloween. Also now that he can use smash attacks he can easily tear vehicles to shreds. Something to consider, I know he competes with ravagers and razorwings but in the right list a pair of these fellas coming out of a WWP on turn two can really impact the game with their shooting, and they are cheap MC’s. I have to play test them more but giving tokens out to foot warriors is awesome.
I was thinking the same thing, actually. I like these guys for the ability to beef up ground units, and I think it would be cool to run a funky list with lots of Cronos. I think it would take some finesse, and if you play a Mech army it will be a bit of a bummer. Lastly, obviously, they compete with your primary ranged AT, but it sounds like people are having excellent results with Wyches in Venoms, so perhaps that wouldn’t be such a loss after all.
Awesome point, maybe use a few troops as dedicated AT while using your heavy as warrior support. Honestly I think the Cronos is a wild card that has yet to be tapped because it was useless in 5th ha ha. It’s weapons are so strong at killing enemy infantry and if it comes from a WWP it will have decent range on turn 2 and will get the drop on enemy infantry (while bumping up your own) and probably draw a lot of fire in subsequent turns. Just something to consider, after al most wouldn’t have thought a pair of wraith lords to be viable in a foot eldar army 😉
Haha, true! I will certainly have to give it a shot. I think that would be a fun army to run.