Join us for an exciting game, tonight! InControl’s Adeptus Mechanicus featuring the new 8th ed codex vs. Frankie’s Death Guard and Mortarion. Tune in at 5 pm PST to our Twitch channel to join the fun and see who comes out on top.
Geoff’s AdMech list:
| Unit | Force Org | Cost | # | Total | Weapons | Cost | # | Total | Total | Notes |
| Battalion Detachment | Mars | Command Points | 3 | 1134 | ||||||
| Belasarius Cawl | HQ | 250 | 1 | 250 | 0 | Warlord | ||||
| Enginseer | HQ | 40 | 1 | 40 | Servo Arm | 12 | 1 | 12 | ||
| Rangers | Troop | 8 | 5 | 40 | 0 | |||||
| Rangers | Troop | 8 | 5 | 40 | 0 | |||||
| Rangers | Troop | 8 | 5 | 40 | 0 | |||||
| Datasmith | elite | 22 | 1 | 22 | Gamma | 10 | 1 | 10 | ||
| 0 | Power Fist | 20 | 1 | 20 | ||||||
| Kastelans | Heavy | 65 | 6 | 390 | Heavy Phosphor Blaster | 15 | 18 | 270 | ||
| Battalion Detachment | Stygies | Command Points | 3 | 863 | ||||||
| Dominus | HQ | 125 | 1 | 125 | Volkite Blaster | 8 | 1 | 8 | ||
| 0 | Phosphor Serpenta | 6 | 1 | 6 | ||||||
| Rangers | Troop | 8 | 6 | 48 | Arquebus | 25 | 2 | 50 | ||
| 0 | Omnispex | 7 | 1 | 7 | ||||||
| Rangers | Troop | 8 | 6 | 48 | Arquebus | 25 | 2 | 50 | ||
| 0 | Omnispex | 7 | 1 | 7 | ||||||
| Rangers | Troop | 8 | 5 | 40 | Arquebus | 25 | 1 | 25 | ||
| 0 | Omnispex | 7 | 1 | 7 | ||||||
| Onager Dune Crawler | Heavy | 90 | 1 | 90 | Icarus | 40 | 1 | 40 | ||
| Onager Dune Crawler | Heavy | 90 | 1 | 90 | Icarus | 40 | 1 | 40 | ||
| Onager Dune Crawler | Heavy | 90 | 1 | 90 | Icarus | 40 | 1 | 40 | ||
| Enginseer | HQ | 40 | 1 | 40 | Servo Arm | 12 | 1 | 12 | ||
| 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Totals | 46 | 1393 | 604 | 1997 | ||||||
| Command Points: | 9 | Detachments: | 2 |
Frankie’s Death Guard:
| Unit | Force Org | Cost | # | Total | Weapons | Cost | # | Total | Total |
| Battalion Detachment | Death Guard | Command Points | 3 | 1125 | |||||
| Typhus (Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality) | HQ | 175 | 1 | 175 | 0 | ||||
| Daemon Prince with Wings (Blades of Putrefaction) | HQ | 170 | 1 | 170 | Malefic Talons | 10 | 1 | 10 | |
| Biologus Putrifier | Elite | 74 | 1 | 74 | 0 | ||||
| Noxious BlightBringer | Elite | 63 | 1 | 63 | Plasma Pistol | 7 | 1 | 7 | |
| Plague Marines | Troops | 19 | 20 | 380 | 2x Blight Launcher, Bubotic Axe x10 | 78 | 1 | 78 | |
| Poxwalkers | Troops | 6 | 18 | 108 | 0 | ||||
| Poxwalkers | Troops | 6 | 10 | 60 | 0 | ||||
| Battalion Detachment | Alpha Legion | Command Points | 3 | 402 | |||||
| Daemon Prince with Wings (Warptime) | HQ | 170 | 1 | 170 | Malefic Talons | 10 | 1 | 10 | |
| Sorcerer (Warptime, Prescience) | HQ | 90 | 1 | 90 | Force Sword | 12 | 1 | 12 | |
| Cultist | Troops | 4 | 10 | 40 | 0 | ||||
| Cultist | Troops | 4 | 10 | 40 | 0 | ||||
| Cultist | Troops | 4 | 10 | 40 | 0 | ||||
| Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment | Death Guard | Command Points | 0 | 470 | |||||
| Mortarian (Miasma of Pestilence, Putrescent Vitality, Curse of the Leper) | Lord of War | 470 | 1 | 470 | 0 | ||||
| Totals | 85 | 1880 | 117 | 1997 | |||||
| Command Points: | 9 | Detachments: | 3 |
Two straightforwards lists. Death Guard have 2+1 FMC/FGMC style mega melee monsters with 58 screening chaffs and a 20 man plague marine bomb. Chaffs hold objectives, things in armor charge the enemy, almost no shooting. Admech have Cawl/Mars/6Robot donkey punch with a stygies Icarus squad. I count 32 screening bodies + the 3 icarus as the only things standing between those mega flying combat monsters and the 6robots.
Some mathhammer assuming Mortarian has 4++ and a 5+++ FNP:
Robots should do 17.64 total wounds to Morty assuming Wrath of Mars and double shoot on first turn. Not doing the double shoot pretty much guarantees that Morty survives even with the icarus helping.
108*0.75*0.33*0.5*0.67 + 108*0.75*0.16*0.67
Assuming all of the Robots are in range and LoS, yes. But, they often are not due to their static nature.
So if you don’t mind burning another CP, there is a strategem that lets robots ignore the penalty to moving and shooting for 1CP. That gives you 8″ of movement to get them into position to fire on something with 10″ wings. You can use the move and ignore heavy strategem, and then trigger the protocol switch at the end of the movement phase.
Good catch.
Gonna be exciting to see, the SW missiles were supposed to make statistical minced meat of morty too.
Everything can happen.
It´s gonna be fun to see the outcome. I love admech minis, they are super cool looking.
Hey Frankie/Reece,
Do either of you find Death Guard to be a command point-heavy army in your test games? I haven’t really gotten a chance to play too much with the new codex, having just got it, but I don’t see that many that seem to be worthy of list-tailoring. Obviously the 3CP mortal wound bomb can be really strong (especially with Morty) but it’s a once-per-game thing. And the rest definitely have their uses but they just don’t immediately stand out to me as an army where I need to try to get double digit command points like some others.
Well with their list the cloud of flies is probably going up every turn until the plague marines make it to the enemy.
Yeah, that one is likely going to be going to that big unit. Especially considering Mortarion is probably going to be casting the -1 To Hit on himself so you don’t have that psychic ability to spare.
But unless you have a giant infantry unit that really wants that Cloud of Flies, I don’t see them being a command-starved army. Lots of great situational ones like the auto-explode and VotLW but nothing you need to be using every chance you get.
Veterans of the long war is absolutely great.
You could DS a unit of full plasma termies (and a lord), 18 inch rapid fire all that plasma with VotLW and then use cloud of flies to keep them alive. If you do that for two turns thats 4 CP gone already
I’m not sure what exactly Cloud of Flies would do in that scenario. Are you also deep striking a SECOND squad of terminators in front of them to screen them? I’m not sure that would be the most points-efficient usage.
couple of dumb questions-
1. Where is Geoff’s 3rd detachment (or a typo?)
2. What legion are the CSM being run in? (I assume in ITC this must be declared when the list is made?)
1.) Typo, good catch.
2.) Alpha Legion.
Honestly- in 8th Edition Alpha Legion may become as much of an auto include as White Scars was for SM in 7th…
The other legions are mostly pretty awesome too, but Alpha Legion really shines.
Alpha Legion DG uh oh…good luck Geoff!!!
Going to have my first game with the DG tomorrow. Just got Morty together so he’s probaby in. Anything else I should take?
Excited for chaos to keep expanding like this.
Frankie swears the Death Guard are the best unit, FWIW.
You mean plague marines?
Nah, just the entire faction. Combine it into one model and its the best unit xD
I did, lol, yes. In our games so far, they’ve been the best unit.
Fast things that can keep up with and screen morty from things like mortal wounds are a good take. Good luck with the game, hope you guys have fun!
Where do I find the points for the wings on a flying Daemon Prince of Nurgle?
Why no relics on the DG deamon prince?
I think it had suppurating plate in the game
It did, Frankie is notoriously bad at making clean lists, lol
Yeah, the more I learn/play of 8th, the more I feel like a model shouldn’t cost less than 5. Anti-horde weapons are actually better vs monsters and vehicles due to how cheap the hordes are. Pretty much the only way to beat a horde of 3 pts models is have your own horde of 3 pts models.
Of course morale mitigates some of that but it doesn’t exist for most of the hordes: nids have synapse, concripts have comissars. And even then, the guy can just burn 2 CP :/
Thing gw is working on amending the OPness of the cheap hordes that cause problems. At least that´s what they should be doing.
Here are some numbers(higher means more resilient per point):
Bolters
Conscripts 1.125
Brimstones 1.5
Onagers(T7) 1.06
Lasguns
Conscripts 3
Brimstones 4
Onagers(T7) 4.24
Lascannons
Conscripts 0.6
Brimstones 1.2
Onagers(T7) 0.075
So to kill a tank with anti horde weapons is just a tiny bit harder. And killing a horde with antitank weapons is 10 times harder.
Some more reasonable troops:
Bolter:
Boyz 0.6
Termagants 0.675
Onagers(T7) 1.06
Lasguns:
Boyz 1.8
Termagants 1.8
Onagers(T7) 4.24
Bolter:
Boyz 0.3
Termagants 0.45
Onagers(T7) 0.075
See. MUCH more reasonable. But still pretty BS :p
Good job on the summary!
I know IG players who completely ignore taking armour and only go (or went) massed cheap infantry with inf heavy weapons and do better vs enemy vehicles point wise this way.
I also knew of ork players who only took masses of boys pre the introduction to all the primaris massed anti horde killing units because nothing else was as effective.
It would be nice if the balance changed somewhat so that hordes would have their special advantages AND weaknesses. Taking russes for example should be fun and add more positive then it does vs taking another 100 cheap bodies.
I dont think this is difficult to mend and gw have shown they actually care about skewed metas.
Maybe better balance will be introduced on a codex by codex basis in that codex A counters hordes, codex B counters armor etc and needs a different meta to be handled.
I hope not since rock paper scissor 40k is not particularilly fun.
Just make damage spill over(to an extent maybe). As a bonus, this will remove the silly rolling damage 1 by 1 dice and will make Mortal Wounds not as appealing (make psykers worse)
Are your numbers taking into account morale losses as well?
That’s what seals it for me- the entire morale mechanic is in the game (Seemingly) to make bad turns for a unit become awful turns, but only for high model count units. It’s a great mechanic too, as we lost a bunch of ways to do that in this edition (psychic scream, template weapons, blasts, etc.)
When a cheap unit becomes immune to moral (Effectively) it kills that part of the game. If a conscript is 3 points, 4 points, 5 points, … it is broken if it can be effectively immune to morale… higher point costs matter, but not the root issue.
Maybe there should be a rule that units over X number in size (say 10+)? can’t mitigate losses from fleeing until their unit measures 10 or less?
I honestly don’t think hordes are as good as folks think the are. Brims are the exception, IMO as they are far too durable. But “normal” hordes are pretty easily dealt with if you tool up for it. Make sure to bring some heavy weapons for punching vehicles, too, and you are GtG.
BAO saw pretty much every top list with either a whole lot of conscripts or drones.
I hope GW changes the comissar to halve the losses from morale on conscripts specifically, would fix a great deal already. And then more importantly changes some of the IG artillery (maybe -1 to hit if you dont have direct LoS)
Could the cultists use tide of traitors or whatever the respawn stratagem is? Can a DG detachment still use csm stratagem?
They can, yes.
Well those alpha legion ones can. Any death guard ones can’t since deathguard and 1k sons aren’t allowed to use can stratagems
Really? The CSM codex suggest otherwise. all of the faction abilities cannot be used by Death Guard or Thousand Sons. This would include strats.
If a cultist is taken in a Deathguard detachment, it’s taken illegally, right?
As I understand it, a cultist can only be taken in “Chaos soup” or a CSM (i.e. Red Corsair, or Emperor’s Children… ) detachment.
Frankie is good to go, as he has a CSM detachment. This both allows the cultists and unlocks the stratagem.
Cultists are in the Death Guard codex.
How did I miss that? I thought Deathguard was missing cultists, but I don’t have it on my phone to check!
Regardless though, there is a paragraph on page 291 (under Lost and the Damned) that states something like:
“Note that Thousand Sons and Deathguard are CSM and therefore can’t use any of the abilities in this section”.
I would have interpreted “this section” to include the stratagems too, but maybe it only includes “Tide of Traitors” and “Legion Traits?”
Hmm I don’t know what that means, especially because I do not own the CSM dex (yet).
Cultists are 100% in the Death Guard codex. They have plague marines, cultists, poxwalkers, nurglings, and plaguebearers in the troops section.
Yes- cultists are in the DG and CSM books.
Yes- CSM has a stratagem which allows you to pick up cultists and place them again, at full strength, in a new location
No- DG does not have the same stratagem.
So
Yes- if you have CSM Cultists in a CSM detachment, you can use the specified stratagem on those Cultists
Yes- if you have CSM Cultists in a Chaos soup detachment, BUT also have a second CSM detachment, you can use the stratagem on those Cultists
No- You can not use the stratagem on DG or CSM Cultists if you don’t have a CSM detachment in your army.
Unknown- if you have DG Cultists in a list, and a CSM detachment, can you use the stratagem on the DG Cultists.
It all depends upon what “this section” means on page 291 of the CSM dex.
Reece (ITC) is ruling that the Unknown above should be a Yes. That seems fair to me. Until a Death Guard FAQ comes out, that works.