More Daemon Codex information from the Warhammer-Community site! What do you think?
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New Daemon Information!
Obviously without seeing the rest of the codex I can’t be sure, but these are kinda… Meh
Hopefully Nurgle gets some cool things.
Daemons have a lot to be excited about. But, we don’t have the whole picture yet.
Based on the leaks on dakkadakka, it seems Tzeentch will have exactly one good psychic power (Flickering Flames as previewed here). I guess nobody is allowed to do as well as Eldar in the psychic phase, not even the army that is literally made of magic.
Well, that depends on your perspective, of course. I’d wait and play a few games before jumping to conclusions =)
Being stuck with the baseline 6 powers is unacceptable in itself, really. All six would have to be amazing, use-every-turn powers for a properly psychic Tzeentch army to have enough spells to cast before getting trapped in the rapidly degrading smite.
The spell list is one of only a few major disappointments though (the other being Kairos doesn’t seem to be any better, though I can’t be 100% positive on that yet). I am very excited to deep strike a bunch of 12″ range flamers and blow up a pesky screen.
Again, lol, wait till you have the book and have played a few games to pass judgment. Lots yet to be seen.
Flamers? Sheeeeetttttt…I’m deep striking 30 Pink Horrors…
The degrading smite won’t hurt them as much as they seemingly have an aura of psychic check rerolls and a lot of +1 to cast shennanigans.
Except GW forgot how modifiers work, and they happen AFTER rerolls. You’re only rerolling 2s, 3s, and 4s on natural psychic checks for smites.
I dunno, a reroll per turn for WC 5 is pretty bonkers. That’s free command points but better, because now you have the ability to reroll twice in one phase.
Changeling nerf is expected. Just hoping the aura still works on tzeentch csm based daemons still, whatever the aura is ?
So far from all the previews and leaks the overwhelming impression seems to be that while fluffy all-Daemon armies got better and there are some cool new tricks, a lot of units surprisingly didn’t get buffed or got buffed less than expected. You add in some big nerfs, some disappointment with psychic powers, plus that Chaos Daemons need to heavily restrict the types of units in a detachment to get chapter tactics (unlike pretty much every other codex), and you end up with Daemon players that will probably be disappointed – especially after Imperial Guard and Eldar and Tyranids made out like bandits in their codexes.
I’m looking forward to seeing the whole picture to see whether competitive daemons should be taken seriously or not. If nothing else, I think you will see some competitive daemon armies that shake up the meta with deep striking, plus some really cool competitive Daemon + CSM or DG lists. As a guy with a huge Nurgle Daemon army, I certainly can’t complain that I’ll now have way more options to play my models competitively despite the base slow movement speed and the problems with morale tests.
I think Daemons overall got a lot better and that they will make a very awesome detachment in a chaos army, or with mutiple mono-god detachments.
We can dig deeper into it soon, but generally speaking I feel it is all positive changes. The nerfs that may or may not be coming I assume are going to be for the betterment of the game as a whole, too.
Thanks for the feedback. I’m really looking forward to the batrep and to your detailed preview articles. I think even with a lot of overall improvements there will be a lot of head scratching as to why some units didn’t get improved or didn’t get improved more, but I am excited to see how Daemon players will have new flexibility in picking between several good options: mono god armies, multiple god armies, or mixed Chaos armies. Combined with the fact that you can use the models in AoS as well, hopefully it will be a great time to play and collect Daemons.
Betterment is debatable, I suppose. If the codex serves to simply boost CSM, instead of building up Daemons, I would argue it wasn’t for the better.
That being said, I have faith in GW and that they wouldn’t not identify pure chaos Daemons as generally having very few powerful units, and would actively work to improve those.
Yeah, fair point. I would just wait and get some games in, personally. It’s fun to speculate of course but experience will ultimately bear it out.
I’m all for soup armies losing power and fluff armies gaining strength. The fluff abomination armies and the death of the background it reflects on the table, has been laying a dead hand over 40K for me the last years. This game is so much about immersion. I don’t read much background, but I still want to feel that what I’m playing against is a true representative of a faction and not just an index finger.
To me it’s obvious that a one-god army should be stronger than a mish-mash of gods, bickering among themselves. And the same goes for all factions – chapters, regiments, craft-worlds, hive fleets, protocols. If you want to pick the cherrys from different gods/equivalents, you should get a backlash when it comes to how the army performs in-game.
SOOO this. Unfortunately that is more of the exception than the rule, but there are a few treasures out there. Guard obviously, most space marine factions can do it with scouts (not crutching with guardsman), Nids rock it. I’ve been hammering some 100% emperors children lists to very great effect. 🙂
Can’t wait to see the Slaanesh preview, as it happens I’m building a new army of those! Please let them have useful shanenigans and not only easily countered leadership stuff!!!
Will do =)
With impossible robes when you use the re-roll that will kill wearer on a 1, wouldn’t Ephemeral Form boost any roll of a 1 up to a 2, giving it no down side?
Reece, can you clarify how Index only thing interact with Codex things.
Can you give warlord traits and artifacts to a non-codex character?
Can you use detachment specific stratagems on a non-codex character?
Can you use a non-codex character that has the same keywords without breaking the detachment?
Yes, yes, and yes, so long as they have the appropriate keywords (so an Index version of the Autarch with Warp Jump Generator can benefit from all of the various bonuses from the Craftworlds codex, so long as you give him the appropriate affiliation.)
Better prepare your butt for potential deep striking primarchs following all those yes answers.
The two Daemon Primarchs have the Daemon keyword, but do not have the Daemon faction keyword. I expect that a lot of the stuff in the new codex will key off of the latter.
Oh, trust me, I’m of that opinion as well. Tyranid FAQ Sets a precedent.
Well, the designers commentary specifically states that faction keywords only matter during the army selection process. Otherwise keywords and faction keywords are treated the same for all rules purposes
There are already cross-army stratagems with existing armies / codexes. GSC are the exception and it’s because GSC are a unique army that don’t have certain Tyranid keywords. Which makes sense, since Tyranids and GSC are pretty different in the fluff. Meanwhile a Chaos Daemon is fully a Chaos Daemon whether it’s a daemon primarch or a plague bearer or an obliterator. You get all the benefits and drawbacks of the keyword during the game regardless of what army you’re in. So why be surprised if daemon stratagems work on a daemon unit from outside the codex? That’s a benefit of using your 3 ITC detachments from different codexes, as opposed to burning detachments for Lords of War or doubling down on one strong codex.
GW has confirmed on twitch that it’s allowed, it seems.
The double standard (GSC-‘nids =/= CSM-daemons) makes sense in narrative games, but I don’t think it is positive for matched play.
Specially when soup armies seems to be one of the main issues in matched right now.
Interested in seeing the limits to added those nurgle trees every turn? Maybe they count as being summoned so you have to spend points on them?
Of course you have to pay the points, they’re clearly summoned reinforcements, not models you add to existing units.
Seems Slaanesh gets a couple of great bonuses to survive against CC armies, stacking the strat and the trait should wreck a lot of Blood Angels, World Eaters or CC Catachans, but it doesn’t look like they’ll have that kind of defense against shooting, and I don’t know if the deep strike strat and the run+charge locus will be enough to get them to combat against those… Will have to see once the codex is released, but Slaanesh looks like it’s going to depend heavily on DS alpha strike to deal with ranged armies, and that can easily be countered with screens… Won’t cry though, a challenging army is always fun to play and I’m sure there are still tricks in the codex we haven’t seen, so hyped to finally see it and hopefully to read a general review as you have been making with the latest codices!
The anti-shooting defense of slaanesh depends on how are fiends now. If they retain their rules and get cheaper, slaanesh will be a serious threat to any shooting army deploying non-flyer bubblewraps. At 46 each, fiends are expensive, but soporific musk is an awesome rule to set up devastating long term strategies.
Yes but… How do you get friends to reach combat? While they’re awesome and I like them a lot, they’re notoriously squishy and die very easily. Also, flying units are still a problem and they’re quite common this days.
Well, they move 14″ and now they can advance and still assault, that’s an average 24-25″ reach. Long enough to make it from a BLOS, if there are a couple in the board.
Flying units are a problem you can leave for subsequent turns, as long as you have some ground units to engage at the end of your turn.