Tonight’s game features the Salty Banana and his Grey Knights vs. Pascal the Painter and his Chaos army! Tune in tonight at 5pm PST to our Twitch Channel to join the fun.
The Raw Dogger is back with more Grey Knights!
| Unit | Force Org | Cost | # | Total | Weapons | Cost | # | Total | Total |
| Battalion | Command Points | 3 | |||||||
| Draigo | HQ | 240 | 1 | 240 | 0 | ||||
| Librarian in Terminator Armour | HQ | 145 | 1 | 145 | Stormbolter | 2 | 1 | 2 | |
| Force Staive | 13 | 1 | 13 | ||||||
| Paladins | Elites | 53 | 5 | 265 | Daemonhammer | 13 | 1 | 13 | |
| 0 | Psycannon | 20 | 2 | 40 | |||||
| Stormbolters | 2 | 3 | 6 | ||||||
| Terminators | Troops | 44 | 5 | 220 | Psycannon | 20 | 1 | 20 | |
| 0 | Daemonhammer | 13 | 1 | 13 | |||||
| Stormbolters | 2 | 4 | 8 | ||||||
| Terminators | Troops | 44 | 5 | 220 | Psycannon | 20 | 1 | 20 | |
| 0 | Daemonhammer | 13 | 1 | 13 | |||||
| Stormbolters | 4 | 2 | 8 | ||||||
| Terminators | Troops | 44 | 5 | 220 | Psycannon | 20 | 1 | 20 | |
| Stormbolters | 2 | 4 | 8 | ||||||
| Nemesis Dreadknight | Heavy | 130 | 1 | 130 | Dreadfist Pair | 35 | 1 | 35 | |
| Dreadknight Teleporter | 10 | 1 | 10 | ||||||
| Heavy Incinerator | 40 | 2 | 80 | ||||||
| Nemesis Dreadknight | Heavy | 130 | 1 | 130 | Dreadfist Pair | 35 | 1 | 35 | |
| 0 | Dreadknight Teleporter | 10 | 1 | 10 | |||||
| Heavy Psycannon | 30 | 2 | 60 | ||||||
| Totals | 24 | 1570 | 414 | 1984 | |||||
| Command Points: | 6 | Detachments: | 1 |
Pascal is bringing a tough Nurgle themed Daemon Engine Chaos Warband featuring lots of fun units and combos!
- 1,987 points
- Faction Keyword: Chaos
- Detachments: 2
- Battalion
- Spearhead
- Command Points: 7
| Abbadon | 253 |
| Cor’baxutterblight | 230 |
| Forgefiend | 211 |
| Forgefiend | 211 |
| Forgefiend | 211 |
| Deamon Prince with Wings | 180 |
| Herald of Nurgle | 70 |
| Warpsmith | 111 |
| 10 Plague Beaerers | 80 |
| 10 Plague Beaerers | 80 |
| 10 Plague Beaerers | 80 |
| 3 Nurglings | 60 |
| Plague Hulk | 210 |
| Total | 1987 |
It´s going to be exciting to see. I´m or rather was very hopeful for especially terminator themed armies (non deathwing) beign playable, especially after the good things in 8th that made kan themes playable again but so far from what I have seen and tried myself terminator armies have proven to be nearly useless which is to bad.
After the last instant terminator tabling vid I dont have much hopes but I´m going to be cheering them on again just for the chance of being proven wrong.
Have a good game guys!
Isn’t that Brandon’s Chaos army? And I thought Jason would have updated his list since last week. Is there a reason he is using an identical list.
Yeah right now we are using the studio build until I can get my lazy ass in gear and get my true army together. The second tabling in two weeks may have been all the inspiration needed, lol.
Feels like a VERY uphill battle for Grey Knights, their Smite has to do work. All the Bolters aren’t going to do the work that they normally do since of the Chaos composition. We’ll see how it does. :]
Did daemon princes get reduced in points? Winged ones are 212 not 180 in the book
Nope I even double checked for you. With Malefic Talons they are exactly 180 points. Both Chaos Marine and Chaos Daemon versions.
My mistake. BattleScribe has it auto on hellforged sword for some reason.
That’s because it comes with a Hellforged sword base on the profile.
You have to swap out for the second set of Malefic Talons. Which is a no-brainer in my opinion. The sword and the axe are incredibly overpriced compared to what two sets of talons do for only 10 pts.
Got it. I just ripped the arms off my prince since I had a lash whip and sword. Time for some conversion work.
Oh well, heres to what I already suspected.
Fun fact: In 8th gk terminators are actually MORE useless then they were in 7th. Even Jason blurted out in the batrep about shelfing the useless crap.
But GKT armies are actually quite good at one thing in 8th..getting tabled even by deamons. Fun.
The worst thing is this crap will probably be set in stone now when the GK codex gets out soon.
So now it remains to be seen if the promised yearly rules/points adjustments will repair unusable things like LoTD or termie themed armies, especially GKT ones and make them viable like 8th did with things like ork kan armies or if I´ll have to shelf my 800+ hours of GKT models and wait another decade till 9:th edition hoping something finally changes.
Guessign that even frontline ought to slowly start to vaguely suspect that GKTs arent “sooo good” by now other then as paperweights.
Looking forward to cheering on a new future GKT tabling batrep.
How about Jasons GKT army vs naked footslogging grots next? We can bet on tabling turn?
😛
Honestly, with a few tweaks I think his list could’ve been a LOT more dangerous- the real problem is that he has a bunch of units that want to deep strike next to the enemy and go for charges, but nothing that wants to start on the table as required by the rules. So even if all he had was seven baby units of Acolytes or something like that, he’d be able to put the overwhelming majority of his army in reserve and go into the teeth of the enemy.
I’m not sure you can say GKT are better than their Strike Squads by any amount, but they’re not _garbage_. I doubt they’re gonna be tearing up the tourney scene anytime soon, but it’s not like you’re shooting yourself in the foot, especially against a list like the Chaos one above.
First thanks for watching, Don! I think the problem with GKT at the moment is just the point cost. They absolutely can tear it up in combat but the problem is that there are so many multi damage weapons in 8th at the moment that taking a wound by these an removing the high point costed GKT really hurts. I am currently working on what I hope will be my more permanent 8th edition GT army and it mainly revolves around multiple Interceptor squads supported by a couple Venerable Dreads and a large unit of Paladins with support Characters dropping in with the Dreadknights. Hopefully I can get that army done soon so you guys can see me at full 9000 soon.
Have to agree, most Termies are in a bad spot right now. There are a ton of multi-damage guns and they almost all have decent AP, those mulch Terminators.
Storm Shields seem key to getting Termies to work, that’s why people love the DA ones so much. Either that or they need a ride.
I thought plague bearers were 11 each cause of the plague sword costing 3?
Plaguesword costs 3 points for Heretic astartes but Chaos Daemons units include wargear costs. It’s a bit confusing at first… especially considering daemons point costs all say “including wargear” even though banners and instruments cost extra (found in the “Other Wargear” section).
But any weapon that a daemon comes with is included in the base cost. Do not use the points found under the Heretic Astartes wargear page.
Awesome! Thanks for letting me know. I thought it was bit steep!
Well the batrep was cool and I like the way frontline does them explaining and even on occasion making a deliberate bad move simply to explain some game mechanic aspect to the vieweres.
Jason: You said it yourself, your new GK army will be without those paper weights (terminators).
Frontline gaming should man up and address 8edition holes instead of constantly laughing these things of claimign everything is “sooo goood” all the time.
8ed is a masterpiece partially thanks to you guys but to err is human and there are glaring mistakes in there so lets discuss them and help making this edition into an even better one thanks to gws promised yearly revisions.
it is fun to see how for example nids became useful across the board making the army fun and good from the stale crap it was in 7th BUT ffs guys, there are STILL armies and units out there locked into mono builds or plain useless.
Now I “only” use orks, gk and sm myself (but face more) so these are my main areas to spot mistakes but here are some right out of the memory.
1: Terminators. They plainly speaking suck ass!
What do I mean by that other then you actually DO shoot yourself in th foot ever using the manure in a GK army (there is a reason the only termies ever useful in a GK list are paladins)?
Taking a single squad inside a big army is fun adn has its uses since the rest of said army can cover the terminators weaknesses but a terminator themed army is DEAD in the water. It is utterly useless and unplayable, only way they might work is in a deathwing army due to their flexibility and even then it is more of a “fun” army then a useful one.
The game is drenched with multi wound weapons and a rend mechanic that laughs at the INSANE point cost of the inflexible terminator model that by default grants the enemy objecties due their low model count.
Why were terminators so utterly bypassed the everything-is-good-and-takeable playtesting phase?
What did you guys smoke the day GKT were playtested?
I´m sure I´m not alone out there in really really wanting to make terminator themed armies that actually work.
As it is now ponder the fact why only paladins are useful in a GK army (oh you DO you know I´m right) and even then it is a touch and go due to point cost insanity/lack of mobility (yes the gate power is the one thing helping out the GK from being a waste of all points) and prevailence of rend and multi wound.
You did orks playable (kan themed armies for example) and nids but left such a big chunk of the most popular race out there, the SM left in the dark.
2. Legion of the damned.
Another unit that is actually worse in 8th then 7th.
In 7th these never-seen models could at least negate skimmer jinxes.
So what did the playtesters do to make LoTD useful and prone to be taken? Nothing!
They are nerfed further in not being able to fill the nische by jinx negating. A costly space marine with the same lame loadout option as the tactical 13p marine that costs twice as much but STILL dies just as fast to 90% of all the weapons out there, bolters, sluggas, lasguns etc etc etc.
The result is that LoTD is STILL never ever seen even in “fun” fluffy games by being the 8th editions single most useless crap unit, overpriced to the point of absurdity and beyond. LoTD makes even GK terminators look like 7ed scatterspam in comparison.
This is another varied and very cool looking model range for SM players shelved, a fail for geedub a fail for the players and an utter play testing fail.
3.
Blasts. You know why tournaments arent flooded with blasts such as say a plasma cannon. In 8th they are simply put glorified plasmaguns. The lack of auto hit with small blasts kills them dead!
Explain to me why anyone wants to take a weapon that shoots 2 on average = 1.3 hit = 0.85 wounds!
In what universe does a plasma cannon that costs through the roof on an already expensive platform do 0.85 wounds that still allow a save on the opponent?
You think this is useful and “sooo good”? Are you insane?
4. Bikes.
Not to bad but go over the point costs, as mentioned, in a game of multi wound weapons and “jinx” saves gone bikes seem to shine with their absence. They are like better versions of terminators with mobility to make up for the fail that are termies.
Sure, the odd unit here and there is fun and useful as long as you take plenty of “auxillery” support but try using a 100% bike themed army.
5. Horde hard counters.
Told you from the very start horde spam will be the new scatterbike meta and lo and behold what do we start to see over and over?
Flyer spam and horde spam. Now if flamers and blasts are “sooo goood” explain to me why horde spam is so prevailent!
It just doesnt add up. With blasts being nerfed into single model killers (a whirlwind at 90 points kills on average 3 guardsmen..is that smart playtesting? Do hordes fear artillery?) and hordes only being halted by other horde spam what did you expect?
The flamer sucks so much when it comes to damage output vs cost vs hordes (did you miss the mathammer charts?) that its not even funny despite what Reece keeps saying to himself.
A 9p weapon on a 13p platform that kills on average 9p of orks after sacraficing ranged shooting, demanding a transportation, getting into suicide range and relying on luck is an utter fail when it comes to horde countering. They only work en masse in the few units that can actually mass them.
Do we see massed uses of blasts and flamers in tournaments or do we see unchecked horde spam?
Reece says flamers/blasts no longer counter horde infantry but have other uses.
I say what else should logically counter hordes if flamers/blasts dont? Opposing lasgun horde spam?
Good for selling geedub models I guess..
6. Point costs. Weapons cost the same across the board, this is a fail. A lascannon or assault cannon etc etc cannot cost the same no matter if it is placed on a scout marine, tactical marine, predator tank or land raider.
Why does for example a las cannon cost so much on a weak predator (basically a rhino) that goes down/degrades as easy as a bare naked rhino as on a much sturdier landraider that will keep shooting longer due to its much better toughness?
Think about other options on other platforms and how those platforms wildly differ and you´ll catch more of these examples.
The problem it “seems” that you walked right into in playtesting is to blindly transform 7ed point costs to 8th by a simple math algorytm.
You failed to take into account altered game mechanics, objective-vs-unit numbers, rending mechanic vs armour safe nerfs (terminator lol) and often a charge mechanic that leaves expensive and needed aura models behind a charge.
You also failed to mitigate the boring meta state that turned into a rock paper scissors mechanic.
Now in 8ed if you take units of dedicated anti armour you kill yourself with the overpowered horde spam, there is no balanced middle ground when it comes to this.
Better “blasts” should theoretically bring more balance to the rock-paper-scissors that is horde spam and still allow for more balanced list builds where an insanely priced lascannon predator doesnt mean an auto loose when you face horde spam that doesnt care about your lascannons.
You did such a good job overall with 8th and transformed some lame armies into fun powerhouses so I know you can keep doing this to the rest.