A Forgeworld datasheet was spotted! Do not fear Renegade and Corsair players.
The following comes from the Warhammer-community site.
Well, yesterday was exciting, wasn’t it?
Amidst the massive line-up of new releases due for pre-order on the 3rd of June were the Forge World Imperial Armour Index books for Space Marines and their traitorous counterparts.
We haven’t really talked about Forge World miniatures in the new Warhammer 40,000 yet, but now that the new books are confirmed, let’s take a look at a datasheet from one.
This guy is a Leviathan Dreadnought. And more than that, a Chaos one! The traitor’s look like they have opened up their 10,000-year-old vault of Legion Dreadnoughts for the new Warhammer 40,000. Against those new Primaris Space Marines, we’re sure Chaos players will appreciate the reinforcement.
Just a cursory glance at the stats on this guy, and we can see that he is an absolute monster! Some of the larger walkers, which previously fell a little short of super-heavy status in the last edition, do very well out of the new Warhammer 40,000 (Orks also do pretty well here).
Kitted out either for combat, shooting or a mix of both, this Dreadnought is going to wreck face. All of those weapons are looking like good options. There’s even a ranged weapon that kicks out mortal wounds – one of only a handful in the entire game. We think we’re veering towards a grav-flux bombard and hellforged siege drill as our favourite kit though. You budding Chaos Lords will have to decide for yourselves.
And that’s just one unit in one of the two Forge World Index books accompanying the launch of the new edition. And there will be more Index books on the way very soon after for other Forge World Imperial as well as xenos units.
We’ll be back tomorrow with a look at missions and objectives in the new edition.
Spicy boy in Melee.
Looking over at my Salamanders 30K Leviathan with glee
Absolute monster. I’ve always loved the look of Leviathans, but holy crap this dataslate is going to be a complete beast on the tabletop. T8? W14? 2+/4++ melee/5++ shooting? Egads, this thing better be a looooot of points.
Not an absolute correlation to real points but at 16 power you’re looking at double the cost of a Rubric Marines squad, triple the cost of a tactical squad, and about 2/3 of a Knight.
Pretty sure Leviathan outshoots and outfights a knight. 2+ to hit/shoot, 2+/4++ melee save, and the grav bombard certainly outshoots any knight weapon anti-vehicle. Knight has 12″ move and more hull points, but functionally no save in melee and 3+ hit/shoot. This is making me nervous about Resin model balance.
We still haven’t seen the entirety of the Knight’s datasheet yet but we know, at the very least, it can walk over anything it wants and walk in and out of melee which this dread cannot.
Additionally, “power” is a pretty pitiful system. Is the 16 power based just on the standard 2x claws layout? If so this thing doesn’t scare me that much as it’s move isn’t that gigantic and a couple wounds from a heavy weapon will weaken it.
With precise points costs those amazing weapons like the grav-flux bombard should hopefully be appropriately costed very high.
Yeah the power system has a lot of questions about upgrades. Models with high point upgrades really win in a power game. I just think back to the history of ITC and its original comps back in the bad old days of random resin tanks with hellstorm templates at AP2/AP3. I am very confident that the plastic balance in 8th is going to be great. But resin … yeah … it was playtested … but how much?
I agree about power. That’s why it’s just a “rough estimate” for people more interested in getting a game together quickly, playing with newbies, or playing more narrative/campaign-based missions.
But back to this profile, I don’t think it’s quite as bad as people assume at first glance. Those weapons are going to cost something – hopefully a decent amount. They are pretty short ranged. And I don’t see any rules that say this thing can move and fire heavy weapons at full balisitic skill. So really that 2+ shooting is a 3+ for those guns…
The Power System if for newbies. How many times have you seen a newbie pile on upgrades and relics that don’t really make a unit better. They uncompetitively cost their own units by paying for upgrades that don’t help them.
With the Power System they can upgrade to their hearts content.
Also, Knights have a 5++ now don’t they? Am I thinking of something else?
Yes it’s a 5++ all-around against shooting according to Reece’s faction focus article.
I forgot to mention as well to Jason that the grav bombard may “outshoot” the anti-vehicle weapons of the Imperial Knight but you have to also consider the threat range. The grav-flux and the soulburner are ridiculously strong attacks but they have an 18″ range. Coupled with 8″ move that’s a 26″ threat bubble.
On the other hand, assuming the same range as 7th, the melta cannon has a 36″ range IIRC. 36″ + 12″ move = 48″ threat bubble. Almost double the range of the dreadnought. So, while that thing has some wicked looking offense, it’s much easier to position around it’s threat range than it is for a lot of other hard-hitting shooters.
5++ against shooting against all facings. So a knight is similarly durable against shooting, but no invul in combat. Reading between the lines of all these day to day updates suggests that facings are not a thing anymore.
I for sure see how knights would be able to outmaneuver a leviathan dread. Dreads seem like … for the power level … much better in the mid field melee. Knights better at running the sides and fighting things like vehicles where the 6-sword won’t be facing invul saves, not singular/elite combat units.
It certainly seems like a monster in melee. Which is fitting for a siege dreadnought I suppose. It’s slow for a vehicle. I wonder if vehicles have any movement restrictions we don’t know about. You could potentially use cheap units to tie it up in combat repeatedly, which you can’t do to a Knight.
Does this mean Chaos is getting their access to grav too!?!
Also, wow, some looks at Grav. I wonder which parts will stay and which will go for other grav weapons? That’s a crazy high AP.
Granted that grav weapon worked radically differently from how space marine grav worked in 7th ed. Might still be very different.
Grav-flux is different than grav and forgeworld always had slightly different rules than GW did.
Plus that weapon is just insane all around.
7/6 ed Heresy grav was different. That does not mean they didn’t sync them with the reset. Either way we don’t know for certain, but still interesting to speculate.
My feeling is grav stayed the same without the rerolls to wound part. So a grav wep wounds based on the enemy models save, and is prolly AP 3 to 4.
Well the forgeworld article answered my question regarding mortal wounds. 40k has very few weapons with mortal wounds. Most likely deliberate considering how many models in AoS can deal them. GW wanted to distinguish the two systems without people whining “AOS’d”.
some ideas about how many weapons each turn those kind of units can fire?
I believe it’s all of them.
Hey Reece did any of you guys get to play test this guy? How did he do? Did you like him?
Should I abandon all reason and buy one?
if you like it buy it, I’ve got several of them, and they are fun to assemble and paint and play.
Curious, how big is this thing compared to a regular Dreadnought?
Hey dude,
They have this comparison:
https://www.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK/photos/rpp.257094630974491/1767339833283289/?type=3&theater
Might help you to figure out the size :).
Very, very big. Like, somewhere in-between a Contemptor and a Knight. It’s on an 80mm Base, not a 60mm like most Dreads.
I wonder if I could convert one out of a nemesis dreadknight…
Scratch that, I know I can out of a nemesis + AoS maggoth beast.
Am I missing something? The siege drill is better than the claw in every way for the same cost?
In Narrative Games using Power Levels, upgrades are all free. The Points Costs for Matched Play are all in the back of the book, and I assume they will have an upgrade cost there.
Yeah, it says it comes equipped with two claws. The drill is an upgrade and we don’t have point costs yet.
that makes sense. I was imagining that like AoS, the might not charge for upgrades, but it would make sense if they did.
I don’t remember where they confirmed it, but I know in the article on points they mentioned the cost of some space marine upgrades.
New rules popped up from good source.
Death to the false emperor is 6s to hit generate more attacks.
Berzerkers pile in and attack twice.
It’s unfortunate that I will need to buy a Forge World Index for the *one* FW miniature I own… sigh.
Am I mistaken to think they said all the dataslates would be free PDFs online?
I thought the main benefit of the Index books was essentially any special faction rules etc.
they’ve only ever said the core rules would be free and then that there would be index’s