Hello denizens of the interwebs. SaltyJohn here from TFG Radio to bring you an article out of the ordinary for me. A fluff piece, discussing the roots for Primaris Marines in the Fluff!
If you’d like to listen along, or just listen, to this article it’s as easy as clicking “play” below.
In case you live under a rock, which is unlikely as you clearly have internet access, then you’ll know GW officially announced a new type of Space Marine, the Primaris Marine, on Monday May 15 2017. The wailing and gnashing of teeth was immediate in certain dark corners of the internet but generally the announcement was well received. The announcement video is below, after which I am going to address one of the more salt inducing parts of the announcement. Where in the fluff is this new type of Marine justified? The answer may surprise you. It’s justified in multiple places in the fluff.
The first rumors of these new Marines came from a teaser video around the time of the Rise of the Primarch release. With the official announcement from GW in several posts on the Warhammer 40,000 community page a fair number of players began to question the fluff viability of Guilliman and a Mechanicus Magos creating new Space Marines. First we should address the need for better marines. There are several instances in the Horus Heresy where it is hinted at that the Adeptus Astartes of the 41st millennium are a shadow of the Marines from the 31st millennium. In False Gods Horus is given a glimpse of the future by the Chaos Gods in which he sees Space Marines that are shadows of those he knows. This can be taken several ways but upon my initial reading I believed the passage to be hinting at the Space Marines being “diminished”. The case for this is made elsewhere and the degradation of Gene Seed is well documented throughout the fluff. Whether it is the degrading of the gene seed; removing the Belchers Gland from some Marines to the devastating effects of the Red Thirst on Blood Angels, the Gene Seed degrades over time. Over the course of 10,000 years it is completely understandable that the Space Marines of the 41st millennium may indeed be a shadow of those produced by the Emperor in the 31st.
The fluff supports the need to “fix” gene seed in several places. Most notably the Blood Angels, and their successors, and the Space Wolves. The Space Wolves lack successor Chapters almost entirely due to the instability of their gene seed and the Canis Helix. The entire idea that “There are no Wolves on Fenris” comes from the idea that Space Wolf initiates that don’t hack it, or Space Wolves that succumb, turn into the wolves of Fenris. The Dark Angels seem obsessed with the cleanliness of their gene seed; the samples they send for testing are consistently “perfect” which is an oddity in and of itself, that’s unlikely to be the case without some tampering. All of this combines to create an environment in the fluff where there is a definitely playing with gene seed going on, on Mars.
The idea of creating new Space Marines using a new process is seen in the fluff furthest back in Deliverance Lost by Gav Thorpe. Deliverance Lost is a Horus Heresy novel focusing on Corax, Primarch of the Ravenguard, and his quest to restore his legion after the disastrous events of Istvan IV. Corax and a small remnant of his Legion travel to Terra, in a psychic audience with his father Corax is given the knowledge required to find the locked away remnants of the Primarch Project. Having acquired the necessary technology from the vaults under the Himalayas with the help of Mechanicus Magos Biologis Nexin Orlandriaz, a small cohort of Custodes, and Raven Guard he sets off for Deliverance and begins the process of breeding a new Legion.
Through the efforts of Corax, Magos Orlandriaz, and the Ravenguard Chief Apothecary Vincente Sixx the Emperor’s secrets to the Primarch Project and their progeny, the Adeptus Astartes, are unlocked. Corax decides to create Space Marines that are better than those produced by the Emperor. With decreased time required for maturation, increased strength/speed/senses beyond those of a normal Space Marine, the Raptors as they are dubbed by Corax, represent a leap forward in the fluff from the normal Space Marine. The advanced maturation rate was explained in a conversation regarding infants implanted with new Gene Seed a mere 40 hours before.
“That is remarkable. Eighty hours to turn a boy into a legionary? Well, in body at least.”(Thorpe 357).
During their research into the Primarch Project a lot is revealed about the various Primarchs and the problems inherent in their various Gene Seeds. Corax hopes to create a brand new Legion of super marines in a short amount of time and surprise Horus with a tide of vengeful Ravenguard whose abilities outstrip those of the Traitorous Legions.
“Our recruits will emerge from the process with mental and physical aptitudes beyond anything we’ve seen before. They’ll be quick learners too. A little bonus of the primarch material. Our new legionaries will be primed and ready from the outset.” (Thorpe 358).
While the Raptors perform exceptionally well in their trial battles; the forces of the Alpha Legion, which had infiltrated the Ravenguard after Istvaan, tainted the project with Chaos causing the second round of Raptors to mutate horrifically. The project is then stolen by the Alpha Legion and Corax’s dream never becomes a reality. The groundwork was laid in the fluff though for the possibility of creating Super Marines, and the necessary players. A Mechanicum Magos and the mind of a Primarch. See any parallels yet?
The second place we find “new” Marines being created in the fluff is Battle of the Fang by Chris Wraight. Battle of the Fang takes place in M32, just after the events of the Heresy, at least in terms of the millennia that separate almost everything in the fluff, and Magnus the Red Daemon Primarch of the Thousand Sons has become aware of the ambition of Space Wolves to fix the Canis Helix and create successor chapters in numbers large enough to fully encircle and patrol the Eye of Terror. The first, and only, attempt at a Space Wolves successor Chapter the Wolf Brothers ended in calamity as they all succumbed to flaws in the Canis Helix. Wolf Priest Thrar Hraldir, known as Wyrmblade, had unlocked the secrets to recreating Space Wolf gene-seed without the inherent flaws. This included the flaws that made the Canine teeth grow like fangs, the enormous beards, and even the propensity for the initiates to become slavering, hulking, Thunderwolves.
“‘The Wolf,’ he said at last. ‘The curse and the glory of our kind. For a generation of mortals, I have worked on a cure for it. No fleshmaker has ever discovered more than I of the ways of the Canis Helix, perhaps not even those who arrived on Fenris with the Allfather himself. It became clear to me the curse could be eradicated while preserving the glory. This work has been my calling.’ ‘The Tempering’ breathed Morek. ‘indeed. I have refined the Helix, altered it to deliver the strength of the Adeptus Astartes without the ravages of the beast within… they do not degenerate, nor do they fall prey to the Wolf.” (Wraight 276).
Having learned how close Wyrmblade had come, Magnus used the Great Wolf Harek Ironhelms obsession with him to pull the Space Wolves away from the Fang so Magnus could assault the fortress and destroy Wyrmblades work once and for all. The threat of the Vylka Fenryka becoming stable enough to make large numbers of successor chapters on the same level as the Ultramarines, was too great a threat to the pawns of Chaos.
There are other examples of “super” marines in the Warhammer 40k and 30k fluff. The Thunder Warriors, the primogenitors of the Space Marines, who the Emperor used to conquer Terra were larger and more powerful Space Marines. The Thunder Warriors did not have as long a life span as Space Marines, the Astartes in the Horus Heresy novels particularly Loken discuss the Astartes as immortal unless killed, and they often succumbed to genetic flaws quickly. They were the template for the Legiones Astartes and were eventually wiped out by the Custodes on orders from the Emperor in order to fulfill the Unification of Terra and remove the threat the Thunder Warriors posed to the newly united Earth. The Custodes are another example of uber Astartes in the fluff. They are often able to scythe through numerous “normal” Space Marines before being brought down by the larger numbers of the Adeptus Astartes. Even among the Space Marines themselves there are those who are superior, the Grey Knights. The Grey Knights are carefully selected for their extremely powerful psychic potential and are perhaps even the gene sons of the Emperor himself. Grey Knights are often shown as being superior to a “regular’ Space Marine.
The Primaris Marines are not an entirely new concept for Games Workshop. The whole notion of needing to correct mistakes within the gene seed, or needing more powerful Space Marines with specialized equipment and abilities is evident throughout the fluff of both 40k and 30k. From the Thunder Warriors of Unification, through the Custodes, Primarchs, Raptors of the Corax’s project, the fixed Space Wolves of Wyrmblade, the Grey Knights and now the Primaris Marines the creation of newer and better Space Marines is a common theme and goal of the many characters in 40k and that’s just the Loyalists! When you take into account Fabius Bile, Angron’s implanting of the Butchers’ Nails, the cloning of Horus, and the various other ways the Chaos Legions have attempted to augment themselves and create more powerful Astartes it becomes even clearer that GW never intended to have a world in which stagnation of their factions, models, and story line could occur. Not to mention many of you reading this have been complaining about wanting “true scale” marines for years, so stop complaining.
So what do you think?
I don’t think anyone is questioning the validity of their fluff. Just whether it was a good idea to one-up their flagship faction, and whether it would have been better to be up front about it and just say: ‘Yeah, these are the new true-scale space marines, replace your models with them or don’t, whatever’.
I don’t know what would be the best way.
Personally I would have preferred that, but I suspect it would have created a bigger backlash.
I definitely agree. A new faction, that can be incorporated into your old, is definitely better than a set of models to replace an entire range.
I think it is fine. All good examples you provide, and I’ll add another.
I think if Fabius Bile can mutate existing marines to give them +1 initiative, then Cawl can mutate them to give them +1 wound.
Yeah, I didn’t even dive into the Chaos side of it!
All I know is their Bolters are going to look better when I turn them all in to Raptors, especially if the 8th Update by FW gives them a familiar change to their Bolt weapons.
“Not to mention many of you reading this have been complaining about wanting “true scale” marines for years, so stop complaining.”
I’d settle for true-scale Marines that were actually just marketed as true-scale marines. Instead they’re just whipping up fluff justification and claiming these do not replace the existing marines so they can slowly but surely release more and more of these kits over time and eventually invalidate the old range.
“If you like your marines, you can keep your marines.” Where have we heard that line before?
I think it is actually going to come down to the points cost and then people may buy. If these new Marines sell overwhelmingly well then bye bye traditional astartes.
I think they are cool and would like to have 1 unit of them to supplement my force, but if it ends up being have only big Marines and squeeze in 1 unit of small Marines just to fill out points that will leave a bad taste in my mouth…
It’s also going to come down to what the different versions of these marines may do. They said that the Primaris Marines are specialized as a unit, so if the Assault oriented version, or Heavy Weapon (?) version are awesome we may just see a lot of those.
I think most things in Newhammer will be playable but some units may be stand outs.
My complaint is I want to play traditional Ultramarines but I want to replace all the models (including Calgar, Tigurius, etc) with these models. :p
LOL, nice problem to have I suppose.
I’m curious to know just how many people were really clamoring for “tru-scale” marines? I know I wasn’t.
I suppose it depends on how much time you spent on DakkaDakka. 😀
My problem with it is that it is just bad writing as presented. Yup, a project of titanic proportions was fully concealed for ten thousand years and it totally proceeded to spec while its primary motivators were either wandering about the galaxy or essentially dead. This is way too far along the deus ex machina and mary sue paths for me to think of it as anything other than trash.
We’re discussing a fictional setting where a cadaver has kept the terrors of the warp at bay for 10,000 years whilst ensconced on a throne that’s fed millions of souls a year and you’re problem is a project that takes a similar amount of time?
Salty John, I can’t tell if you are deliberately misconstruing my point or really did t get it?
I hear you, Incarnant – like everyone who doesn’t care when GW ignores the rules of the universe they created, he runs and hides behind “well X, Y, and Z happen in 40k but you’re worried about A?!?!?!?!!!” Insert huge eye roll.
The whole point of 40k is the *science* fiction (or science fantasy, whichever you prefer), meaning they generally stick to the physical and metaphysical laws they’ve established in-universe and when they wildly violate those established laws it cheapens everything. When they do a crappy job ramrodding major new cannon down our throats to justify new minis it betrays our trust.
We’ve bought into the existence of the Warp, which then explains all kinds of things such as the “cadaver” “ensconced on a throne that’s fed millions of souls a year”. But when you then bang into our heads how ancient it all is, and how the Imperium is decaying and losing technology and the grimdark is about little meaningless lives standing up against the horrors of the 41st millenium and then “oh – by the way, this tech priest has been alive for 10,000 years so all this whole ancient stuff at the beginning of the Imperium isn’t shrouded in myth because evidently *mortals* are still around. And he can make Marines+1.”
“This World has CRAZY SHIT and you’re going to question something!?!”
Wow, the analytic skills of a toddler. This is why you have sub 200 followers.
Yes, but that was part of the Fluff. Its a crazy 41st millennium. Lets make hundreds of thousands of Marines. Make them wait around for over 10k years. And then we’ll, release them. Such bantha fodder. The Primaris Fluff is what made me quit the game. Stupid millennial’s and terrible writers from black library came up with this trash dumpster. And Yes, all the writers now at BL are piss poor. 40k is dead to a lot of us. William King was the last great writer for BL. And now he wont even mention BL. Screw GW, BL and the idiots behind it now.
Yeah, the story is pretty awful.
“We secretly developed these Marines even though Girlyman was in a coma and Cawl was running around digging up dirt. Somehow no one ever caught wind of our plans despite the fact they would have required an ample amount of human subjects and would have created giant freaking superpowered humans. Also they happened to be done at exactly the same moment that Girlyman magically came back from the dead thanks to a new freakin’ god of the Eldar. Love it when a plan comes to fruition.”
But the idea of the Emperor wandering around Earth for countless millennia slowly putting the pieces into place for him to dominate mankind just banking on the birth of Slaanesh shattering the Eldar and setting humanity back thousands of years by making warp travel impossible so he could more easily conquer a Terra that is cut off from humanity and then overcome the scattering of his Primarchs, after destroying his Thunder Warriors, but it’s ok because he can just make Astartes and pick up his wayward children on the way so YOLO,I love it when a plan comes together! Is more believable?
You’re misunderstanding, people don’t like the lore because it’s new and wasn’t written in the 90s, everything new is bad! 😉
No, I’m getting it. I just refuse to accept the premise of their discontent.
Of course unbelievable things are going to happen in this sci-fi setting. But this is way too convenient of a ret-con. “No, for serial guys we’ve totally been planning this the entire time and while the Imperium has been getting torn asunder with trillions of people dying we never thought it was a good idea to actually use these guys we’ve been making. We kind of just figured we’d keep them totally shackled up in someone’s basement until Roboute came back to life and then we’d finally think about using them.”
Also the fact that the two people supposedly in charge of this whole operation were nowhere to be found so your average techpriests were apparently able to pull off this enhacement of the Astartes gene. Which makes you wonder why no one else had the bright idea to do it…
But when you realize the fact GW just wants to sell cool new big models it all of a sudden makes more sense why these guys are just showing up out of the blue with the claim the plan has been 10,000 years in the making.
I’ve got nothing wrong with new fluff. I thought the advancement of the plot in the Gathering Storm books were great. And the torn nature of the galaxy right now is going to make things very, very interesting. Just don’t pretend it’s been your plan all along that these Marines have been cooking ever since the Horus Heresy…
Bad plotting written previously excuses bad writing now? You are under the very mistaken impression that I am somehow okay with previous poor writing. The closest I will come to that is that they now have several professional grade authors on permenant staff, this level of ineptitude is no longer as excusable as it was from a tiny company.
“Bad plotting written previously excuses bad writing now?”
If you think the entire premise of the fictional universe is a bad plot then why are you here discussing it? Not sure how you can care so much about the fictional universe to argue over this if you think the entire plot it’s based on isn’t good to begin with.
Don’t play dumb (or maybe you’re not…) The Emperor’s age and the Warp are well established components of the 40k universe. They fit in and make sense in-universe. We’ve bought into it and it all fits together. To break this down barney-style for you (since you keep insisting anyone who has a problem with this rollout in particular should necessarily have a problem with the 40k universe in general), our issue isn’t the super-marines. It is the lame, ham-fisted, unrealistic (within the confines of the 40k universe) way in which it they were introduced.
Belisarius Cawl is 10,000 years old? Really? So WTF is the Horus Heresy treated like an ancient time of myth if there are tech priests running around who were alive at the time? If their brains still function why has the Imperium’s technology been decaying?
And he’s been working on a project, with Guilliman, *on Mars* for 10,000 years and no one noticed? And right with RG wakes up from stasis *ding* the marines are done? Why not do this controversial thing (and very heretical) project on some other planet? Oh, and there’s thousands? And they’re all ready right now?
It would be one thing if they wrote it so all these events happened over decades. It would have been much better that way – you don’t have to advance your entire universe at the pace of a cheesy sci-fi action novel. The painstaking and deadly process of how a space marine is created (it takes years!) was a staple of the 40k lore since almost the beginning. This deus ex machina sci-fi kitsch is just garbage which totally cheapens the grimdark brand.
So again, an adequate rebuttal to this isn’t “hur-dur, but the emperor is old and you don’t have a problem with that!” Perfectly happy to have bigger, marines+1 introduced to the 40k universe. But diminishing pre-established lore by creating workarounds to the tension which creates the drama of the 40k universe isn’t a good way to go about it.
Good article and I plan on making a unit of Raptors for 30k with the Primaris and MKVI armour parts. One thing though… the whole the wolves on Fenris are failed aspirants thing is rubbish because the wolves were there before the Astartes; Russ was raised by wolves before he taken in his tribe well before the Emperor found him.
That would be sick.
The implication in a couple of the 1K Sons books is that the Fenrisian Wolves are a result of bio-engineering done on the original human colonists. Magnus points out that Fenris is far too deadly a world for unmodified humans to survive at that tech level.
It seems a reasonable assumption that adding in the Space Marine geneseed is what makes the difference between ThunderWolves and the regular Fenrisian Wolves. So some of the Wolves would still be failed aspirants, but not all of them.
There were thunderwolves on Fenris when Russ arrived. Try again. It was just Magnus hinting he knew there were issues with the Canis Helix (in the context of Russ/SWs being suspicious of issues with the TS geenseed); could also imply he had some insight into the peculiar nature of Fenris (i.e. way too many apex predators to have occurred naturally). People try to make that line out to be more than it is.
Ah. I haven’t gotten that far in the HH books. Like I said, the part about the TW was my own extension.
It is true tho that Fenris is canonically far too harsh a climate for unmodified humans to survive at a feral tech level.
The fluff needs to adjust to the needs to the game and having the new scale Marines be an existing upgrade seems like an olive branch towards existing Marine players instead of just replacing their stuff.
Of course, this means another slew of Marine releases until everything is replaced instead of focusing on other lines but it’s not like Xenos players should have expected a change in that pattern anyway.
That was what defined 40k, everyone knew that gene seed is degrading, that’s why it was so interesting to see them fighting already lost war 5 minutes before midnight. New hope is good for StarWars, not grim dark universe where is only war. Clock reset, bigger, better, high tech generic scifi suits. What about relic cult, no more good old relic armor 5k years old, worshiped. No more imperium that uses the technology but is so far back that it does not understand it. No more medieval fantasy future. Welcome generic Scifi, that wider audience will understand. Wider is good for business I get that, yet not good for quality.
An Alternate fluff
Here is my stab at a background for Primaris marines
M34
http://warhammer40k.wikia.c…
“The Exorcists is a highly unusual Chapter of Space Marines created during the 13th Founding, the so-called “Dark Founding” which occurred sometime between the 35th and 36th Millennia, before the start of the Age of Apostasy. The Exorcists were founded as part of a highly-classified Imperial experiment to create Space Marines who were unusually resistant to daemonic possession and Chaotic corruption. As part of their initiation into the Chapter each Exorcists Astartes had actually been forced to serve as a daemonhost for a short time before having the foul creature expelled back to the Warp by the intervention of an Inquisitor.”
Cawl would have had to make a deal with the Iquistion but an order with the seal of the Lord Commander of the Imperium would have been persuasive in this.
M36
Cursed Founding
Sons of Antaeus
http://warhammer40k.wikia.c…
“Like Antaeus, the Astartes of the Sons of Antaeus Chapter are unusually large and robust physical specimens, even among their kind, and they are capable of surviving wounds and physical injuries that would kill even other Space Marine”
‘Augmented Skeletons – During the Founding of the Sons of Antaeus Chapter, its Adeptus Mechanicus creators extensively modified their gene-seed in order to create Space Marines of exceptional durability and toughness. Whether or not the Astartes of this Chapter had their skeletons enhanced with some artificial substance, or whether a more esoteric procedure was used is not known. Detractors point out that the Chapter appears every bit as resilient as the Death Guard Traitor Legion.”
In 3rd Edition they had +1 Toughness
With these 2 systems in place some time time in the M36/37 a “seceret chapter” may have been created and send to battle on fringes of known space maybe he Halo Stars of in the Maelstrom or where ever the Mech/Inq were willing to send them both have GOOD reason to keep it secret.
In 3rd Edition they had +1 Toughness
As an my leap of fluff.. ) The Sons of Antaeus were then blended with the Exorcists
Then this “Secret Chapter ” aged in hidden combat A battle company could be brought back to mars and but into stasis. Awaiting the need and command of the Lord Commander of the Imperium again.
This would also mean that the gene seed has been frozen in time from m36 with base of Grey Knigts.
Corrected (please remove the earlier one if possible)
Here is my stab at a background for Primaris marines using known fluff and my own conjecture.
M34
The Exorcists Chapter is created
http://warhammer40k.wikia.c…
“The Exorcists is a highly unusual Chapter of Space Marines created during the 13th Founding, the so-called “Dark Founding” which occurred sometime between the 35th and 36th Millennia, before the start of the Age of Apostasy. The Exorcists were founded as part of a highly-classified Imperial experiment to create Space Marines who were unusually resistant to daemonic possession and Chaotic corruption. As part of their initiation into the Chapter each Exorcists Astartes had actually been forced to serve as a daemonhost for a short time before having the foul creature expelled back to the Warp by the intervention of an Inquisitor.”
M36
Cursed Founding
Sons of Antaeus is created
http://warhammer40k.wikia.c…
“Like Antaeus, the Astartes of the Sons of Antaeus Chapter are unusually large and robust physical specimens, even among their kind, and they are capable of surviving wounds and physical injuries that would kill even other Space Marine”
‘Augmented Skeletons – During the Founding of the Sons of Antaeus Chapter, its Adeptus Mechanicus creators extensively modified their gene-seed in order to create Space Marines of exceptional durability and toughness. Whether or not the Astartes of this Chapter had their skeletons enhanced with some artificial substance, or whether a more esoteric procedure was used is not known. Detractors point out that the Chapter appears every bit as resilient as the Death Guard Traitor Legion.”
In 3rd Edition they had +1 Toughness
Cawl would have had to make a deal with the Iquistion but an order with the seal of the Lord Commander of the Imperium would have been persuasive in this.
With these 2 systems in place some time in the M36/37 a “seceret chapter” using Exorcists base and the modification of the Sons of Anteaus may have been created and send to battle on fringes of known space maybe the Halo Stars of in the Maelstrom or where ever the Mech/Inq were willing to send them both have GOOD reason to keep it secret.
Then this “Secret Chapter ” in hidden combat A veteran battle companies could be brought back to mars and but into stasis and new battle companies sent out. Awaiting the need and command of the Lord Commander of the Imperium again.
This would also mean that the gene seed has been frozen in time from m36 with base of the Grey Knights.
Each of these put into statsis would have a set of progenoid glands that could have been pulled and modded to make the upgrade kit for standard marines.
oops that was a draft … but I figure you get the idea…