Hello fans of Frontline Gaming, SaltyJohn, and TFGRadio today I bring you the somewhat new and upcoming Chaos Space Marine formation, the Chaos Warband! For more reviews, bat reps, tactics discussions, and analysis check out the Tactics Corner!
Space Marines of the traitor legions and those fallen to Chaos since the time of the Heresy are referred to as Chaos Space Marines by the followers of the false Emperor. Having seen the power of Chaos and the lies of the cadaverous false god of the corrupt Imperium of Man the legions of Chaos wage war across the galaxy in the name of the true gods of the warp. When they go to war the Chaos Space Marines do so not as “Chapters” or “Companies” organized in a rigid manner of a false prophet like Roboute Guilliman, instead they go to war in Warbands organized under a powerful Lord of Chaos who marshals the forces he needs for the task at hand. In game terms this is represented by the Chaos Warband Formation.
Those of you who know me are probably surprised to see me writing an article about CSMs. I am definitely more of a Loyalist at heart. My last foray into Chaos was with my 6th edition Nurgle Daemon flying circus. I haven’t played CSMs since the heyday of the 1 trick pony double Lash Sorcerers plus Obliterators. The new rules coming out for Chaos Space Marines though have me excited to start my first full new army in over 3 years, and I am doing two of them. Death Guard and Alpha Legion, the thing these two have in common is they are both going to use the Chaos Warband Formation as the Core of their respective detachments. That’s how good this formation is. In a nutshell it the Chaos version of the Vanilla Marines demi-Battle Company but better in many ways in my opinion.
Formation:
- 1 Chaos Lord
- 0-1 Sorcerer
- 1-3 Units of the following: Chosen, Chaos Terminators, Possessed
- 2-6 Units of Chaos Space Marines
- 1-3 Units of the following: Raptors, Warp Talons, Chaos Bikers
- 1-3 Units of the following: Havocs, Helbrute
Restrictions: None
Special Rules:
- Favoured Scion: When a character from this formation earns a roll on the Chaos Boon table, as a result of Champion of Chaos rule, roll twice and choose either or both of the results.
- Objective Secured
Tactics:
At first glance the formation looks fairly normal. Perhaps a bit bare bones compared to what you can take, or are forced to take, as part of a Demi-Battle Company. On it’s own this formation would be lackluster. Everything gaining Objective Secured is phenomenal but still what’s to be expected. What makes this a great formation is when you start to take it as part of the different Chaos detachments, especially those in Traitor Legions. The benefits of each of the Legions in that book are covered extensively elsewhere on this site. When you start to pair things like Veterans of the Long War for free, with other benefits like Outflank, boost to the Boon Table, Relentelss, Feel No Pain, and the list goes on. A list that can take solid units, cheaper than they could before, and have them all be Objective Secured is a very versatile and powerful formation. It is also highly adaptable. Capable of becoming both a horde list or MSU list easily.
Several of the units are must takes, so lets cover how to use those ones most effectively. If you want to see a good way to run Chaos Warband out of Traitors Hate check out this battle report from TFG Radio. The Chaos Lord is the first must take item in a Chaos Warband. Much like the Space Marine Captain in a Demi-Battle company. The difference here is the CSM Lord is a far better choice in the new books. If you aren’t aware the new detachments/formations are big on letting you get extra rolls on the Chaos Boon Table and building in a mechanism for either re-rolling bad results or choosing results to mitigate the chance of becoming a Spawn or being forced to become a Daemon Prince. What this means is you can, in these formations, take a very basic lord at 150-165 points and have him become a real tank of a character with a few rolls on the Boon Chart turns 1 and 2. Again, if you need evidence of this you can watch some TFG Radio battle reports on YouTube, Adam plays Warband. A lot. So how best to run this Lord? On a Bike of course! Even in the doldrums of the last Chaos Space Marine book the Nurgle Lord on Bike with either Spawn or other Nurgle Bikers was a good unit. Now that is more true because of Warband. If you take a simple Khorne Lord on Bike, with Melta Bomb, and Axe of Blind Fury you’re looking at a potential Close Combat beast who can stand toe to toe with Magnus and scythe through units of Marines with no issue. Not to mention he is Obsec. The same will hold true for a Nurgle Lord. The best part is taking either of those as part of the World Eaters or Death Guard detachments respectively is a huge bonus to them. If you plan to play Alpha Legion with a bunch of Outflanking units then a foot lord may be more appropriate. The great this about Warband Lords v SM Captains in a Battle Company is you can get yourself a Close Combat beast at almost 1/3-1/2 discount in points because of the Boon Chart.
Next up are Chosen/Terminators/Possessed. Honestly the only real choice here is Chosen, unless you just love Terminators. Don’t take Possessed. Chosen are a great choice here, being forced to take a unit that has access to 4 special weapons isn’t terrible. Yes, they cost the same amount with a Rhino as a SM Command Squad. However they have greater flexibility, especially with Traitor Legions, in terms of what they can do through Marks and Legion “traits”. Taken in any of the detachments Chosen are a great unit, they shine in an Alpha Legion detachment where they have the ability to outflank 4 meltaguns, or flamers, or plasmaguns into the enemies back field. Terminators are an interesting must take option for Death Guard, or Emperors Children as they will be more resilient. Terminators are a much better choice in the Terminator formation so probably don’t take them here.
Chaos Space Marines, CSM, squads are the bread and butter of the traitorous Astartes and they only have to take 2 units. Whereas their loayalist brothers must take 3 and they can’t get Marks of Chaos which when coupled with the Traitor Legions book can make them quite a bit more formidable, flexible, and resilient, than the loyalist Tactical Squads. Noticing a theme yet? If you want to play Warband you’re best off with a Traitor Legion detachment. Taking them in minimum squads with special weapons or bumping them up to 10 so you can get a second special or a heavy weapon will be fairly situational. I like 10 man squads with Plasma Gun and Autocannon in Death Guard Warbands. For Alpha Legion I like either 5 man in Rhinos with Meltaguns or a 10 man with double meltaguns in Rhinos. With Emperors Children you can do something that is normally overlooked for CSMs. You could take two 20 man squads with the Icon of Excess for 20 CSMs that also have a 4+ Feel No Pain.
1-3 units of either Raptors, Warp Talons, or Chaos Bikers is also required to field a Warband. Unless you’re a fluff bunny, which is cool it’s not contagious so none of us mind, I can’t see why you would run anything but the Chaos Bikers. If you’re running a Bike Lord, as you probably are, then you want the Bikers. Cheaper than Command Squads on Bikes and in many cases better due to the Marks and various detachment benefits they fit well into the Warband as a must take that is also good. Unlike the loyalist counterpart the Battle Company where it is often seen as a Tax slot to have to take Assault Marines, Assault Centurions (LOL I know right?), Land Speeder, Attack Bike, or Bike squad, all of which are lackluster choices in most Battle Company lists. The CSM Warband bikers fit naturally into almost any iteration you could imagine. A small minimum squad with max meltaguns makes for good tank hunters. In a Death Guard list a squad of 5 or 6 with a fist, double melta, and a Lord of Nurgle thrown in is a great mini-star. For World Eaters a full 10 man Bike Squad accompanied by a Khorne Lord will be a monster unit with all the extra movement bonuses the World Eaters get.
Finally you must take 1-3 Havoc squads or Helbrutes. Again, we’re left with an obvious choice here. The Helbrute is a steaming pile whereas Havocs, with their access to Autocannons, and perhaps Relentless Death Guard players (?), are a much better choice. At 115 points for 5 with 4 Autocannons it is a price that can’t be beat for 8 Strength 7 shots. In a Death Guard list 4 Relentless Las Cannons or Missile Launchers aren’t bad either but I feel the autocannon wins out for sheer points efficiency.
One of the often overlooked benefits of running a Chaos Warband is the Chaos Dreadclaw Drop Pod. Units of Chosen and Chaos Space Marines can take the Dreadclaw as a Dedicated Transport for 100 points. It is 65 points more than a Drop Pod but it can be well worth it. Unlike a regular Drop Pod a Dreadclaw doesn’t have to disembark the unit when it comes in. Unlike a Drop Pod the Dreadclaw can move the turn after is drops as a Flyer with Hover Mode. It can also use it’s Heat Blast to damage units it passes over in game. While 100 points for a dedicated Transport may be steep a flyer that’s also a transport that can do decent damage and only costs 100 points is good. Just ask 6th edition Necrons.
All things considered if you’re running a Chaos Warband you’re going to be running it as part of a Chaos Detachment. More than Likely from the Traitor Legions book. If you are doing this I make 4 humble suggestions in order of most powerful to least powerful. Death Guard, World Eaters, Alpha Legion, and Emperors Children. Take a look at those detachments and their Special Rules. How the marks, or lack of marks, fit into how their respective Warbands would run, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
As always, share your thoughts in the comments section! And remember, Frontline Gaming sells Games Workshop product at up to 25% off, every day.
Great article and write-up! I love the Chaos Warband honestly, and while a lot of the bonuses within a Traitor Legion Decurion are good, I think the Chaos Warband benefits the most from both legion detachment rules ran in a Black Crusade detachment. Because at the start of each turn you’re rolling twice on that boon chart and picking one or both results you can really beef that chaos lord up to over 9000 really fast.
And I agree with all of your suggestions as well for troops. 4 autocannon havocs is hard to beat, but I like the idea of a havoc squad with meltas as well. Cheap and efficient with high damage output.
Dreadclaws are amazing, but I just find them a bit pricey for a dedicated transport. The fact that they are flyers and can move AND are obsec in the Warband, however is huge.
I also like the idea of running termicide over chosen for a couple of reasons. 1. Termicide with combi-meltas is still a very viable unit deep striking in. 2. The fact they are obsec means your opponent needs to do something about them rather than just ignore them when they pop their meltas. That said, Chosen are good option too depending on the Legion benefit you pick.
But this is a great article and I think the Chaos Warband now combined with the new Legion rules puts CSM back on the map in the competitive environment.
I think Havocs with specials are an oft-overlooked unit. He makes a good point about Chosen in an alpha legion detachment who can outflank in with meltas/plasma/flamers. But what about Havocs? They can take the exact same weapons for a 15pt lower base cost. When you have a way to infilitrate/outflank them in that’s pretty powerful.
The Havocs don’t outflank in an Alpha Legion detachment. Only Chosen, CSMs, and Cultists. I do agree however that the ability to take 4 special weapons on Havocs for 15 points cheaper than Chosen is solid.
The fact the Dreadclaws are Obsec makes them worth the points in my opinion. Running them without Obsec would be, again in my opinion, silly.
Eh. For triple the price of a Drop Pod, I still think they’re garbage. A Remora is cheaper and tougher against most weapons (and has actual guns of its own), a Stormtalon puts out actual dangerous shooting, etc. 100pts for an unarmed flyer is just too much to ask.
But don’t forget the Dreadclaw is also an assault vehicle. A super must have for Chaos dudes!
I love that you can even call units such as Chosen and CSM tacticals “solid” thanks to all the new bonuses.
Death Guard does seem to be an undeniably strong legion. You can even take 10 man tactical squads in rhinos and outfit them with a heavy weapon since everything is relentless. This finally makes heavy weapons on tacticals somewhat worthwhile.
I also think Iron Warriors (my personal favorite) is going to be a pretty strong legion. They do work really well in a CAD, but they also work pretty well with the legion detachment. Taking 1-3 fortifications is nothing to sneeze at when you can take vengeance batteries / firestorms that have twin-linked battle cannons thanks to the IW bonus. Plus you can sit autocannon havocs in a building with ammo stores to give them re-roll hits of 1 as well as tank hunter.
I think raptors at least in a world eater army are also overlooked. pretty decent i suppose
Yeah, they are solid in a World Eaters army for sure.
They’re very solid in a deathguard list too! They’ve always had good offense and bad defense, but deathguard fixes that.
The Chaos Warband is a real game changer. While it doesn’t give you “free points” on the scale of Battle Company, you do get some awesome benefits and the ability to summon in Daemons shores up the points deficit. I think you can really compete with a list built around the Chaos Warband.
The Traitor Legion detachments are giving you, what I like to call, stealth free points. They aren’t giving out free points as blatantly as free transports, or free relics (war convo), but instead giving you free rules. VotLW, then VotLW giving you Special Rules for “free”. It is cool, and sneaky…
Yeah, that’s why I mentioned not on the same scale, but they do add up!
For sure, and it’s a method of giving out freebies for Formations/Detachments that I prefer. It’s helpful, but not open to the major backlash that 300 points of free transports can be.
I like the Warband. I’ve had good experiences with it overall due to its flexibility. I tried it out when Traitor’s Hate first came out, and gradually adapted the list to use Word Bearers tactics.
That said, I do have a few points of disagreement. 🙂
-The Terminator Annihilation Force is good, there’s no doubting that, but that doesn’t mean running generic Terminators doesn’t have a place. 5 Chosen, 2 Plasma, and a Rhino is 155 points. 3 Terminators with Combi-Plasma are 112 points; 4 Terminators with Combi-Plasma are 148 points. You also get free Power Weapons to boot, be it of the axe or maul variety. World Eaters in particular can do terrifying things with Terminators.
-Raptors are also handy for Death Guard, as they have the option to Deep Strike but don’t *have* to do so. Give them Plasma and they can act as a mobile rifle team to a lesser degree. At any rate, they pay less for the Mark than Bikers do.
-Havocs are incredible. I feel like you’re giving Helbrutes a bad rap though. Chances are you’re running a fairly aggressive army no matter what, and S10 in melee is still S10. That, and with 5-7 attacks on the charge, a Helbrute can and will hurt stuff. In turn, I’ve found that they’re decent at area denial if they advance through ruins, and can usually MAD against a Knight. One dirty trick I’ve found is to summon a unit of Fiends of Slaanesh on the turn prior to charging a “big target” with a Helbrute, especially if up against, say, a Skatach. (Arguably, the Fiends can do most the work against a Skatach themselves).
Here’s my main list by the way. When I first got Traitor Legions, I started adapting an older build for this, and found the list works better than it looks at first.
++Word Bearers Grand Host++
+Chaos Warband+
Chaos Lord of Tzeentch on Disc, with Lightning Claw and Power Fist, Sigil of Corruption, Scrolls of Magnus and Spell Familiar – 235
Sorcerer of Nurgle on Palanquin, with ML 3, Force Axe, Spell Familiar, and Malefic Tome – 190 [Warlord]
5 Chaos Marines, Meltagun, 4 extra CCWs, Combi-Melta Champ – 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade – 40
5 Chaos Marines, Meltagun, 4 extra CCWs, Combi-Melta Champ – 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade and Havoc Launcher – 40
3 Terminators w/ Axe & Combi-Plasma – 112
3 Terminators w/ Axe & Combi-Plasma – 112
3 Bikers w/ Mark of Slaanesh, 2 Bike-mounted Meltaguns, Champ has Power Lance – 111
3 Bikers w/ Mark of Slaanesh, 2 Bike-mounted Meltaguns, Champ has Power Lance – 111
Helbrute
+Spawn+
3 Spawn – 90
++Helcult++
Helbrute – 100
16 Cultists – 74
16 Cultists – 74
++Ally Detachment++
Herald of Tzeentch on Disc w/ ML 2, Paradox, and Exalted Locus of Conjuration – 145
11 Blue Horrors – 55
11 Blue Horrors – 55
Total: 1850
Notes: This was my “transition” army as I switched out from using Traitor’s Hate. I felt that Crusader and getting re-rolls on the Word Bearer Warlord table were worth trading away a weaker “free boons” bonus.
The Cultists are basically earlygame escorts for the Lord and Sorcerer. They’re Fearless from their formation, and the Lord and Sorcerer grant them Fearless and Objective Secured.
The Lord went for the Mark of Tzeentch instead of Nurgle because Toughness can be buffed or Eternal Warrior obtained, but getting a 3++ is usually trickier. The Disc of Tzeentch is also more attractive when the model on it has Objective Secured, plus it lets him jump over blocker units/chaff.
The Sorcerer took a Palanquin because the extra wounds are going to matter when summoning. With 5 dice and a Familiar, he will get the power off. Lore of Nurgle has some rather powerful blessings nowadays. He’ll generally stick to the center of the action to use whatever warlord trait he gets. Voice of Lorgar and Baleful Nexus are both very useful tools to say the least.
Scrolls of Magnus are the “haha funny” option, but this relic wins me games, simply because it gives my Lord an “extra action”; the GW FAQ on Psychic Focus and Chaos Psychic Focus stacking only further confirmed my appreciation for this tool; while Psychic Shriek has the best Primaris, pretty much all of them (except the Tzeentch or Pyromancy ones) are worth having. The fact I roll for a new power before I move, and keep powers rather than having to re-roll them is very handy. Ultimately I thought it over and felt that having a second Warband Psyker was ultimately worth more than having two extra Spawn.
Is this list the awesomesauce? No, of course not. However, I’ve found it works for most games due to its relative speed, board presence, consistent summoning, and multiple levels of redundancy.
Helbrutes aren’t awful with the +2A bonus, but they’re not amazing, either. AV12 vehicles still die pretty easy in this meta.
I’m not sure why you’re taking Scrolls of Magnus on the Lord, unless there’s something I’m missing. He is not a psyker and cannot manifest psychic powers, so the Scrolls just give him a longer and longer list of things that he can’t use?
True. I’m used to Havocs being static and dying though. Brutes can at least walk for an objective.
And the Scrolls make a non-Psyker able to cast. From the Chaos FAQ.
Q: Is a model equipped with the Scrolls of Magnus, that does not begin the game as a Psyker, considered to have become a Psyker once they acquire one or more additional psychic powers from the scrolls? For example a Dark Apostle with the Mark of Tzeentch. (pg 69)
A: Yes, the model has the Psyker special rule from that point onward, and is considered to have Mastery Level 1
Granted, I still don’t recommend the Scrolls for most lists but it’s here so I can cram a second Psyker in my Warband. Favored Scions has saved my bacon from the awfulness of a Sorcerer being turned into a Spawn because he fried an errant Sergeant with a Psychic Shriek!
Ah, interesting, I hadn’t seen that bit in the FAQ. Not that it actually makes the Scrolls any good (since you’re giving up some other strong options to get it), but it’s something.
The real question being what I can do with 60 points?
2 Spawn?
10 Cultists and Bike Combi-Meltas?
Another Blue Horror battery and a Meltabomb for the Sorcerer?
The more I think of it, the more I feel that none of the options particularly do much for me. *shrug*
Another Herald in the Daemons detachment, maybe? I honestly think you’d be better off dropping the Helcult to upgrade the Demons to CAD or something, but…
If not that, though, I would definitely add more Spawn or other “bunkers” for your characters. The differing Marks on characters and units actually would mean it is a bit tricky to get guys attached, I would think.
There’s a part of me that just likes the odd rule interactions between the Helcult and the Grand Host though.
You’re getting Fearless Cultists, no matter what. Zealot when their Helbrute dies, because why not?
And in turn, adding Grand Host ICs to them buffs them explicitly (Crusader is “granted” so they run faster, and they’re hiding Obsec Psykers), and implicitly (Lore of Nurgle is a pretty good “buff” lore, Voice of Lorgar is also funny to a lesser degree though I’d rather save that for giving Spawn Furious Charge.
Mixed marks hasn’t been an issue much yet. Spawn have been “independent” at first, though I can jump the Lord to them if needed, or they can slingshot my Sorcerer; likewise, putting an IC in a 3-man Bike unit would just not make any sense.
The reason for Power Lances on the Bike Champs? Mark of Slaanesh + Free Veterans of the Long War + Favored Scions = a bully unit. Marine units generally do not tool for melee unless it’s a Bike Command Squad or Wolfstar (Ravenwing Black Knights are a notable exception).
The real question being what I can do with 60 points?
2 Spawn?
10 Cultists and Bike Combi-Meltas?
Another Blue Horror battery and a Meltabomb for the Sorcerer?
The more I think of it, the more I feel that none of the options particularly do much for me. *shrug*
Those all sound far more excellent to me than the scrolls of magnus. I often tie up wraithknights with units of 20 cultists. I feel that 16 won’t be enough.
I actually ended up tweaking the list.
-Dropped a 2nd Horror unit, and the Disc from the Herald.
-Added 5 Cultists to each unit, gave each unit 2 Flamers (Wall of Death, “come at me Acolytes”)
-Added Fists to the Terminator Champs (to help punch stray vehicles/threaten backfield Russes, etc)
And then I dropped the Fists and Malefic Tome to grab another Spawn.
i was vexed when I realized the Black Legion Speartip didn’t use the regular Warband but instead the Black Legion Warband.
It’s really unfortunate and I think it holds the Black Legion back a lot. They would be one of the best legions for creating an alpha strike army and they’re one of the few that allows you to mark/not mark your units freely. But the Black Legion Warband is just inferior to the regular warband which lowers their appeal quite a bit.
It really is disappointing BL Warband doesn’t have Objective Secured.
I get really confused by which CSM formations can be chosen “to use as their own”
For example CSM helcult datasheet formation. I assume Alpha Legion can use that formation as an Alpha legion formation correct? Which would confer alpha legion rules (infiltrate) to those cultists. Which would mean black legion could do the same and use helcult as black legion formation… but they cannot use the generic warband from traitor legions as a seperate black legion detachment?
Same goes for Thousand sons, their formations are so heavy… would be great to just use a basic warband in thousand sons for the obsec.
Any formation can be dubbed as a “[insert legion here] formation” as long as doesn’t break any rules of the legion. So a Helcult could be nominated as Alpha Legion or Iron Warriors or Deathguard (would require MoN) etc, etc. Pretty much any legion could take it since they can all take Cultists.
On the other hand – formations can only be part of the overall decurion if they are listed on that page. So, even though you can nominate a Helcult as a “Alpha Legion Helcult” you can’t make it part of that overall Decurion. So it wouldn’t get the Shrouded bonus or the “Cultists come back on 4+” rules.
So yes, there’s no reason you couldn’t use a Chaos Warband as a Tzeentch formation or a Black Legion formation – but it isn’t a core choice (or choice at all) for their decurion detachments so you couldn’t use it in one of those.
At least that’s my interpretation since “a formation is just a special type of detachment” and “any detachment can be nominated as a ______ detachment” but maybe that’s wrong.
Hi All,
I am running a World Eaters list and just wanted some opinions on a the following potential list
1 lord with bike with a 10 man bike squad, champ with Power Fist 2 Meltas
Kharn
2 huge squads of CSM with Kharn running as attached HQ
1 squad of chosen, rhino, meltas
2 squads of havocs, rhinos, meltas
would this be a “formidable” choice so far? what could I do to enhance its potential ?
thoughts and comments weolcome 🙂
I’m assuming this is a Warband? If so, I also assume you’re going to use the WE detachment, so what is your Auxiliary choice? It looks quite solid so far for a WE force.
Not sure
Looking at the book is fed give the kharn squad champ talisman of burning blood.
Auxillery … not sure … points wise if I was stuck just the spawn. But not sure what formation would make this list even more competitive.
Do you mean give a Chaos Lord a Talisman of Burning Blood? It’s a relic so it can only be taken by characters that can take relics (Like a Chaos Lord). Squad champs don’t have access to relics. Nor does Kharn.
awww really ? 🙁
so can it be taken for a lord on a bike / juggernaught in a unit of bikers?
Yes. Anyone whose unit entry says “may take an item from the relics list” is able to take from either the original codex relics or the new relic table for the legion. Remember, though, you can only take one relic per model.