Tuesday Night Fight is on tonight! We’ve got a special game planned for youat 5:30pm PST: Astra Militarum vs. Iron Hands!
One of our painters and currently top Space Marine and 5th ranked overall ITC player, Thomas will be in to test his Iron Hands vs. Reecius’ ATC Astra Militarum list. This should be quite the game featuring two seasoned players with solid tournament armies.
| Astra Militarum | 1850pts | ||
| Am CAD | Description | Size | Cost |
| Yarrick | – | 1 | 145 |
| Veterans | P.Gun x 3, L.Cannon, Camo | 10 | 135 |
| Veterans | P.Gun x 3, L.Cannon, Camo | 10 | 135 |
| Vulture | Punishers | 1 | 155 |
| Vulture | Punishers | 1 | 155 |
| Vulture | Punishers | 1 | 155 |
| Manticore | – | 1 | 145 |
| Wyvern | – | 2 | 130 |
| Artillery Battery | Earthshaker x 3, Camo | 15 | 315 |
| Aegis | Comms Relay | 1 | 70 |
| Psykana Division | |||
| Primaris | – | 1 | 50 |
| Wyrdvane | Commissar | 6 | 85 |
| Wyrdvane | Commissar | 6 | 85 |
| Wyrdvane | Commissar | 6 | 85 |
| – | |||
| Totals | – | 63 | 1850 |
Fist of Medusa strike force:
Core: Battle Demi-company:
- Terminator Captain with chainfist, Gorgon’s chains, and auspex in Cataphractii terminator armour 185
Tactical Squad (5 man) grav-cannon 105 - Rhino with dozer blade 40
- Tactical Squad (5 man) grav-cannon 105
- Rhino with dozer blade 40
- Tactical Squad (5 man) grav-cannon 105
- Rhino with 35
- Devastator Squad (5 man) grav-cannon x2, 140
- Drop Pod 35
- Attack bike (3 bikes) 120
- Command Squad (5 man) on bike, with apothecary, stormshield x4, powerfist and a melta bomb, chapter banner 235Auxiliary:
- Contemptor Dreadnought with Kheres 185Strike force command:
- Chaplain on bike 110Librarius Conclave:
- Librarian level 2 on bike 110
- Librarian level 2 on bike 110
- Librarian with Mindforge staff on bike 85
- Librarian 65Total: 1850
I’m curious to see what his plans are… is he going to attach the terminator captain to the command squad and teleport them around? Or use their innate and super durable fnp+ psychic buffs to keep it going…
Might put the termi captain in with the dev squad in pod, and then link him up with the bikers round 2/3 ?
I would assume he would mostly be going with the Devs to give them Slow and Purposeful as well as to tank wounds, yeah.
That is indeed what he did.
I think the points are off on earthshakers. Shouldn’t they be 315? Also how are you taking the solo Wyvern with the Psykana Division?
No wyvern with them, that was a typo.
And yes, the Camo netting is per gun, but my list was still 5 points under, sorry for the confusion.
I’m surprised you didn’t just take the emperor wrath artillery formation. Giving basilisks and manticore ignore cover or tank/monster hunter and giving them twinlinked for a turn is amazing.
Nevermind I see you just took the artillery platforms. Those are more point efficient.
Yeah, the Earthshaker platforms are really good.
Easy mistake to make. The Command Squad can not take a Chapter Banner for the +1 attack. They have access to the Company Banner for the re-roll failed fear, pinning, and morale checks.
Pretty sure that is just a typo and he was actually running the Company Banner.
Good catch, haven’t brought one in forever and didn’t remember that restriction! luckily it made no difference except to take points from me 😛 Oh well illegal list is illegal. After the game I realized (as you will after a practice game) how much I wanted to change if I brought this or similar concept to a tournament.
I like Thomas bring him on more often! Really appreciated both y’all’s knowledgeable and specific discussion.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This looks like a good one to watch… Youtube?
It will be, yes!
Still waiting, Reece!
Haha, sorry! It will go up, tomorrow.
Interesting discussion of the direction of 40K. I’ve been onto the lack of competitiveness of the increasingly complex and unbalanced rules set for quite some time, and been actively developing and playtesting solutions to it.
I have 3 solutions that I’ve been actively playtesting.
1) Two Tracks (Small and Big)
2) Community Comp
3) Fixing Formations
More Info about each one in the replies.
#1: Two Tracks
My favorite solution is to break 40K into 2 tracks.
A) Small
– 1500 points
– 2 Detachments (1 Big, 1 Small)
– No Formations
– No Superheavies
– No Strength D
– Limited warp dice. (I’ve been deciding between 12 and 15).
– No Battle Brothers
– No Invisibility (reroll if you roll it), and the same approach could be applied to other problematic powers like Veil of Time.
– Because the feedback (incorrectly) identifies Eldar as a bigger problem in this format I’ve been flirting with making Jetbikes a Fast Attack Choice if they take Shurikan Cannons or Scatter Lasers
B) Large
– 2500 points
– Unlimited Detachments
– Allows Orks, IG and Demons to access their Decurion-style formations.
– As Thomas said, the larger the point total the less gamebreaking deathstars and superheavies.
– By allocating extra time for these games you allow players more time to learn each other’s rules gimmicks and still finish games
Yeah, either small points and limited power combos, or more points and enough stuff to counter it all. Makes sense.
Is there any thought to move to a different format in the future? I know that no two tourneys are exactly the same, but I think it would be interesting for some big sized GTs to mix up the format and shake the meta a bit.
We run the friendly format which is 2K, 4 hour rounds, no list restrictions. It’s fun.
I personally would enjoy having these 2 in addition to the current ITC as a middle level, maybe with a little tweaking to the current.
#2: Community Comp (http://www.communitycomp.org/)
Community Comp is a system developed to add a comp score based on units, abilities, and spam. It intentionally doesn’t ban very many things, but instead assigns a Cost to them in Comp points. I was skeptical at 1st about the specific scoring process, but the more games I play using the Community Comp system, the more reasonable I find the scoring. It works better than I ever would have expected.
#3: Fixing Formations.
Formations are probably the most broken and exploitable part of 40K right now. Also notable for being a farther unbalancing element. At 1850, Eldar, Tau, Space Marines, and Necrons can easily access their powerful formations that bring massive benefits with minimum taxes, but other armies (Orks, Tyranids, or IG) have formations that are either too expensive or have significant taxes on them.
I’ve developed a Document that is my current provisional proposal for how to adjust them to improve their playability. Some of them get nerfs, and some get buffs.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VUB0iOj0o3L6SCqNpTWfBXpCVx3-1zhdP-EFPlfdeEY/edit?usp=sharing
I’m still in the early stages of playtesting these proposals. It is my least preferred of the 3 methods I’ve been proposing, but also one that I’m told will be met with less hostility. My experience is that isn’t the case, and banning formations outright is much, much more popular than targeted formation nerfs, but I’m willing to try it out.
Thanks for sharing your ideas, Tag! Some really interesting perspectives in there.
Hey Reece,
You obviously have a lot of love for the old Iguard. On your podcast you said,”you don’t know why you don’t see move of them at tournaments,” because they can be good. Well I have a Iguard army I have only played once because I play with a bunch of power gamers.
Here is my challenge, let’s make Guard Great again. I would love to see a article or discussion on Signals about what you can do to bring a Guard to tournament levels. We are talking hyper competitive, kick you in the teeth, no hold bars Astra Militarium. Bring it, because us little guys obviously aren’t making it happen! Thanks chief.
Hey buddy, yeah, I have been playing my AM vs. hard tournament lists and have been kicking their butts, so far. I haven’t lost a game yet with my new list. We’ll do some articles on the topic for sure!
MrMoreTanks has run Guard in the past with a fair amount of success, even winning GT-level events with them. The main issues are that Guard are a bit ponderous (and thus have trouble with Maelstrom scoring) and that they deal poorly with deathstars. He’s written some articles and battle reports on them in the past, as I recall.- they have several very strong formations and pair up well with other Imperial factions.
All good points.
You the man. As always thank you for the premium content you guys put out. You can tell the love and care you put into your work. So cheers.
Thanks for the kind words! Much appreciated.
So if I understand the IG list proper, its focusing less on taking objectives and more on unlimited firepower works, correct?