Hello everyone, we are not done showing off what the new Tau can do! This will be a fight you will not want to miss. We have Reece trying out the new Cadian Battle Force “Decurion” style detachment vs. Keith and his donkey punching Tau list. But who will be the Donkey, and who will be the puncher?! This and other highly intellectual questions will be answered, Tuesday night!
Make sure to tune in and find out 7:00 pm PST on twitch we will also be giving away some GW product so make sure to tune in, Subscribers get triple the chances to win!
Keith’s List:
- Primary Detachment: Tau Empire (Combined Arms Detachment)
- HQ:
- Commander – Drone Controller, Iridium Armor, Marker Drones x2
- Troops:
- Kroot x10, 1 Hound
- Strikers x5
- Fast Attack:
- Y’Vahra – Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
- Lord of War:
- Stormsurge – Pulse Driver Cannon, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Shield Generator, Early Warning Override, Advanced Targeting System
- Formations:
- Drone Net:
- Marker Drone x4
- Marker Drone x4
- Marker Drone x4
- Marker Drone x4
- Riptide Wing:
- Riptide x1 – Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
- Riptide x1 – Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
- Riptide x1 – Ion Accelerator, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
Reece’s list:
| Cadian Battle Force | 1850pts | ||
| Battle Group Command | Description | Size | Cost |
| CCS | P.Gun x 4 | 5 | 120 |
| Chimera | – | 1 | 65 |
| Armoured Company | |||
| Vanquisher (Tank Command Squad) | Commander, L.Cannon | 1 | 175 |
| Vanquisher (Tank Command Squad) | L.cannon | 1 | 145 |
| Punisher | M.Meltas, Dozer | 1 | 165 |
| Eradicator | H.Bolters | 1 | 140 |
| Exterminator | H.Bolters | 1 | 150 |
| Enginseer | – | 1 | 40 |
| Assault Company | |||
| CCS | P.Gun x 4 | 5 | 120 |
| Chimera | – | 1 | 65 |
| Veterans | M.Gun x 2, H.Flamer | 10 | 90 |
| Taurox | – | 1 | 50 |
| Veterans | M.Gun x 2, H.Flamer | 10 | 90 |
| Chimera | – | 1 | 65 |
| Veterans | M.Gun x 2, H.Flamer | 10 | 90 |
| Chimera | – | 1 | 65 |
| Hellhound | – | 1 | 125 |
| Militarum Tempestus Platoon | |||
| Scions | M.Gun x 2 | 5 | 90 |
| Totals | – | 57 | 1850 |
This is going to be a tough fight. Tau hit like a ton of bricks and Astra Militarum can pack a punch, too! Both armies will want to strike first. The Astra Militarum have the edge with mobile ObSec, but the Tau have the advantage with pore offensive power. Who do you all think will win?
[yop_poll id=”94″]
Pray for Mojo.
Mojo = Reece in this case. That Tau list is pretty nasty.
Yeah, we’ll see how it goes down, haha!
My prediction is that Reece seizes the initiative, has horrible dice and doesn’t do anything, then his boys get hammered for two turns by Tau double-shotting suits so he gets really, really salty, but then wins with sneaky obsec moves and playing to the mission.
Otherwise known as plan B.
Lol.
Reece stealing the initative on this game will be penance for our last game, lol.
Haha, nice!
Sorry Reece I think the Tau will get this one. I’d have gone with the Artillery as the Auxiliary choice and forgone the infantry for once.
I don’t have a Manticore or I would have! I actually really like the Assault Company.
I think it is better for winning missions. The artillery are good, but there are never enough points to include them in a Cadian Battle Force at 1850. If you want to run the artillery formation, you run it alongside a CAD.
Yeah, agreed. It is a great stand alone product.
Unfortunately Reece’s list is illegal. Its not intuitive and I missed it at first as well — but the restrictions for the Cadian Battle Group state “No unique models other than those listed here may be taken as part of this detachment.” Pask is listed as an option in the Battle Force Command, but not in the Emperor’s Fist Armoured Company. So while an Emperor’s Fist Armoured Company on its own could include Pask, while in the battle group he has to be in the command.
Hmm, interesting, I hadn’t thought of that. It makes a sort of sense, but it’s definitely not something that would be obvious at a first glance. Makes the Armored Company a lot harder to make use of.
Yeah, if that is the case, that is a bummer. I see that reading, though.
It’s the main issue I’ve been having trying to write a list very similar to reece’s
Yeah, that is a bummer =/
Really didn’t want you to be right, but you are. I went back and forth with the cadian detachment rules and the battle group. Winterman is correct.
This again makes the guard formations even harder to use. The battle group is almost unplayable below apoc games. The only use people will get out of these are adding formations to CADs.
Yeah, the Cadian Battle Force is rough to field. The Infantry build I think would be very good, but who has the models?
I missed it as well until you pointed it out.
That right there is a stupid rule. GW had no conception how people actually play 40K when they designed the Cadian Battle Group.
Its a shame. We’ve got lots of IG players in our local meta, and they are mainly demoralized about 40K right now, and I was hoping Cadian Battle Group might be enough to tempt one or two of them to become more active. GW Fail.
Yeah, that is a big time bummer. Lol, this detachment is so hard to actually use.
AM are really good though, I seriously don’t know why AM players are so down. I rarely lose with mine and find them to be super fun to play, too.
When i see you play IG, you usually ally in marines. That offends most of the local IG diehards.
Lots of active duty and former military guys that like conventional warfare. Most of them long for “Tank Battles”. A few like the Russian aspect of hoards of disposable soldiers. All of them look down on allies and psychic powers, and sing the praise of 5th edition.
Its a funny little niche, but a surprisingly large one.
I ally in Marines for fun, not because I think you need to. You can 100% play straight AM and do great.
But yeah, Tank Battles in 40k are silly. Vehicle rules are not the best.
I think its much the same as anyone with an army built around previous editions, fluff, rules or mechanics. 7ed AM needs allies and FW to stay competitive, not something your 3-5ed IG player is looking at as a positive.
The Tau list needs more tides, 7 of them to be precise and wraithknight, to keep your opponent distracted.
Hahaha, that is Dirt McGurk status!
Can we please see a tau list that’s not just 2 stormsurge + riptide wing + misc.? I really want to see something with crisis suits in action. Even broadsides and ghostkeels.
Its only 1 Stormsurge this time 🙂
Also, you will not see a highly-competitive Tau list that does not have a Riptide Wing and a Stormsurge.
I don’t see why not. Broadsides put out more firepower per point than either. A decent size crisis unit with a buffmander/buffvre does likewise. Both are mostly independent of markerlights as well. Attaching shadowsun to either vastly improved survivability. Speaking of shadowsun, camping a riptide within range of her command-link drone makes the nova charge profiles of its main weapons all that much better.
It’s more about Survivabilty and Mobility. Broadsides are static and die easier (no FnP), causing them to flee where Riptides don’t. Also, with the Riptide Wing and Stormsurge (if you choose to anchor for a turn) the Double Shot turn can significantly change the game, giving you a free turn of extra shooting, something the Broadsides cannot. A crisis team is good, but with T4 and a 3+, they Alpha Strike then get wiped out. Plus they get really expensive with their upgrades.
As for Shadowsun, that is another topic. With the Infiltrate rule, she is regulated to being stuck with Kroot or Stealth Suits, keeping her from protecting Crisis or Broadside suits.
By no means am I saying there are no other good choices in the Codex; I am just saying Stormsurge and Riptide Wing are the core of any highly-competitive list.
The Stormsurge is important because it ends up being a way for Tau to kill several units they can’t otherwise handle very well- including the all-important Wraithknight. It’s not the _only_ way for them to deal with such units, but it it’s probably the cheapest/simplest way.
I’m a lot less impressed by the Riptide Wing; certainly it’s good, but I don’t feel it’s the mandatory inclusion so many seem to regard it as and the Tau lists without it seem to do a lot better than those with it.
I think two Y’varhas would be better, honestly.
I’m getting to that point too, I wrote a theoretical list with two of them and an R’Varna supported by an Optimized Stealth Cadre. A whole army that doesn’t need markerlights!
Right?! So good.
Yeah, gotta favor the Tau on this one. Reece might have to pick the low hanging fruit and prioritize first blood and warlord, kind of disappointed he didn’t take master of ordinance in his company command squads for a few pocket large blasts. I love the amount of AP2 in his list, but trying to close that gap to even the 24″ range to even get single shots off with his plas vets will be like figure skating on thin ice with soccer cleats. Also sad to not see Gunny Harker in this list. Relentless rending HB could probably give him some clutch plays (the character price tag is hefty, so I understand)
I have never, ever hit with the master of Ordnance, lol! Not one time.
And I can’t take Harker in this Detachment, he isn’t on the list of allowed Characters.
Nice! I will try to tune in to watch this.
Hope to see you there, buddy!
Pray for Omarion.
I predict a draw. A good old fashioned
A draw is like kissing your sister!
Looks to be an interesting matchup!
One often forgotted trait of Lemun Russ Battle Tanks is that they always Tank Shock at S10, and they don’t face consequences for Tank Shocking.
S10 = 7 (1/2 Armor) + 1 (Tank) + 2 (Heavy)
No Consequences = “For the purpose of determining which weapons a Heavy vehicle can fire (and at what BS), Heavy vehicles are always treated as having remained Stationary” BRB page 88.
So generally, unless it would take you out of position, you want to tank shock any unit within range, and make them take a leadership test. The only exception would be Walkers, because they might be able to swing at you in your assault phase.
I think you are combining Ram with Tank Shock, but yeah, I agree it is solid for Russes. ONly real risk like you said is something that can reliably DoR them or beat them up in melee.
Watching the game. It once again highlights the deep flaw of that ITC mission. 1st blood being the unique tertiary, and kill points being dependent more on list design than gameplay, the mission was more or less decided very early on.
Swapping 1st blood for Last Blood would be a gigantic fix to this mission, and maintain the “All-Killing-All-The-Time” philosophy to nerf battle Company.
It is meant to help counter MSU armies, but I think the gripe is more with First Blood, honestly. It’s a contentious mission point and has been since it was introduced into the game.
I think 1st blood is great for a mission that involves board control like Crusade or Big Guns. I just think it works very poorly with Purge the Alien. Very Poorly. I’ve seen the 1st blood in this mission pick the champ at 2 different RTTs.
I’ve also seen plenty of games like the one in the Twitch feed where it demoralized the losing player early in the game and reduced the fun of the game substantially.
Fair critique. It’s such a fine dance to get the missions balanced. On the other side of the coin, we were seeing MSU armies not give a crap about the KP mission as 6/11 points were about board control. So, in order to make it slightly more about actually destroying the enemy, we made it 6/11 points swayed in that direction. As MSU is so good at the other missions, we felt we needed a balancing effect to keep it fair.
I get it. It is a reasonable adjustment, though I would have liked to see other missions receive a similar recalibration.
The biggest problem was the choice of 1st blood. Any of the other “Kill Something” tertiaries would have worked better at keeping the game from getting decided so early.
In the End of season mission redesign, it would be great if you did something like NOVA or ETC and incooperated Kill points into each mission to help keep MSU in check a bit. That way you won’t have to worry so much about balancing the bonus points.
Another thing you might consider is doing away with the random rolls for your Maelstrom Table. “Pick 2, but you can’t pick the same one on consecutive turns” That way the unachievable turn 1 roll of control objectives in your opponent’s deployment zone wouldn’t be so punishing, and armies that operate without a backfield wouldn’t constantly be getting the shaft. Also it would alievate the need for better objective placement rules somewhat.