Hello everyone Frankie here to discuss the armies you will be seeing at upcoming ITC events and some list building advice to help counter these armies.
First and probably most common will be the Space Marine Battle Company. This army is one of the toughest out there since they have so many objective secured units…and so many units in general! Most of these armies will include an ungodly amount of Grav weapons. My first recommendation will be to take a Void Shield Generator. This will give you a fighting chance against the Battle Company’s Alpha Strike. Second recommendation would be to take a few units that are really good in assault. Units that can wipe out a five man Tactical Marine Squad in one round of combat. You will see this army everywhere so make sure your list has some options to deal with mass amounts of MSU units.
The next army is one of the tougher armies out there and it is the War Convocation. This army is rough due to the high resilience of the army and the firepower from the Imperial Knight and Kataphron Battle Servitors. This is another army that would suffer a little from a Void Shield Generator. Another thing you will need is a unit or two that can handle the Imperial Knight, be careful though because the Knight will have a 2+ cover save if blocked by anything for two game turns. I would also recommend something that ignores cover or a really good close combat unit.
Tau is another army you are going to have to watch out for. They are going to be all over the place probably as prevalent as Battle Company. Tau will have a bunch of different builds and will consist of Monstrous Creatures and Drones. My first recommendation for Tau is to bring an army that will be able to win on the Maelstrom. Something with a lot of fast moving scoring units. Next I would bring a few units that are fast and resilient and will be able to beat the Tau in close combat which still one of there main weaknesses. Lastly I would recommend some Grav if it is an option for your army. Grav will help against the large Monstrous Creatures running around.
Chaos Daemons will be another army that you will need to consider while making a list. This army has been strong for a while now with very few weaknesses. I would recommend bringing some high armor walkers if your army has the option. Daemons struggle a little bit with high armor. Another option is to bring weapons with a lot of high strength or instant death shots/attacks. Yet again another option is a great close combat unit. If you can get some wounds through they will fall apart quickly. Last thing I would bring is a lot of fast objective secured units so you can win on the missions.
Last army to watch out for at ITC events would be Eldar. They are extremely strong and will give a lot of armies some trouble. You will need some things in your list to deal with Wraithknights and Scatter Laser Bikes. I would bring some Grav or Fleshbane attacks so you can tear apart the Wraithknight. Another thing would be long range ap 3 shots so that you can kill the scat bikes. Maybe even some barrage weapons so you can hit them no matter where they are on the table. Also make sure to bring something that can take on Warp Spiders. It will need to be something that is fast and good in close combat.
Necron Decurion Detachments are everywhere! With their incredible durability, hitting power and speed, they are force to be reckoned with. Canoptek Wraiths are scary, the Canoptek Harvest, even better. Tomb Blades are absolutely incredible! A sleeper unit that is an all star, now. A variety of stars in their repertoire are exceptional, too: Lychstars, Wraithstars, etc. You’ll need a plan to deal with these guys as shooting them to death often doesn’t work. Assault is the way to take them down.
Over all there are a lot of things to consider when making a list. Fast moving resilient close combat units are really good in the meta right now and will be able to help you win against most armies. Also Voidshields are great options and should be something you look at when making a list for events. Main thing to keep in mind when making a list is bring units that you will have fun with. Hope this helps you guys with upcoming events. Let me know what else you guys think is needed to consider when making a list.
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What Daemon lists would you expect to see? Summoning and/or Invisible D-Thirster? I feel like Screamerstar doesn’t have the punch it used to, but maybe I’m wrong.
Screamerstar ends up being inferior to other deathstars these days, I think- it’s tough, but it doesn’t hit hard enough to go toe-to-toe with the other big punchers and it’s reliant on a combination of two units (Fateweaver, the Screamers) to consistently get its combo off. More commonly the version I’ve seen doing well run units of Screamers and Plague Drones supported by heavy summoning and buff spells, but don’t go so far as to actually make a real “deathstar” out of any of them.
D-Thirster still doesn’t really impress me. Anything that dies to Krak Grenades that easily probably isn’t a real threat.
So what is the Daemon list to look out for? You pointed out the scary units and builds of the other armies, but I’m really never sure what to be scared of against Daemons at the moment.
In my experience, at least, summoning is the core of it. the summoning can be delivered a couple different ways- by FMCs dropping units all over the table or by “mini-deathstars” of the aforementioned units that lock things in combat while dumping out support units- but all of the successful Daemon builds I’ve seen rely heavily on summoning to do work, because they need to be able to score maelstrom (and deny the enemy maelstrom) in order to have a chance.
What about a list like mine?
HQ:
Bel’akor
Bloodthirster with the D slapper (BIG AXE)
Nurgle Daemon Prince, ML 3, armor, wings, Greater reward (usually the balesword), greater reward
Nurgle Daemon Prince, ML 3, armor, wings, Greater reward (usually the balesword), greater reward
Troops:
12 Pink horrors
12 Pink horrors
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings
Fast attack:
20 seekers of slaanesh
Should I invis the bloodthirster or the seeker squad with Belakor? The other daemon princes will be rolling telepathy as well, fishing for invis, and getting shriek as the primaris. I have a pretty decent chance at getting 2 invisibilities, and ideally would invis the bloodthirster, and the seeker blob, then roll my fast units up the table, while horrors sit back and summon daemonettes and more horrors.
No Grimoire?
It’s more of a Chaos Daemons + KDK + CSM conglomeration that you’ll need to watch out for. Invisible D-Thirsters, Invisible Khorne Dogs.
Given how often you mention fast Assault Units, I’m feeling fairly sanguine about my decision to run Daemonkin at TSHFT 🙂
Daemonkin are a solid army!
Are necron not doing good or something ?
They’re doing great! Frankie didn’t mention them.
Necrons should be a huge concern if you play someone who gives them the repair upgrade. Expect I5 upgrade on wraiths since it is only 2 pts per model and praetorian ap 2 staffs. I almost got tabled in a 1500 pt game with the relentless Necron warriors for back up. Add in the triad have stalker for re rolls for shooting phase to hit and to roll wounds and the frustration keeps building. Playing as Chaos Daemons with CSM hell drake ally I killed 1 triarch praetorian and 5/6 wraiths in a kill point game. Repair protocols is so ridiculous these days, even the scarabs get them who will eat all vehicles, lost 2 soul grinders to a squad of 5 when wraiths locked me in combat.
Necrons are doing great! The most competitive stuff we have right now lie in Wraiths and Destroyers, imo. Fast Assault, as Frankie said, is king right now, and Wraiths are that in a wonderful package. They’re a bit hard to make into a Deathstar, but you can bring lots of them and they do just fine by themselves.
Destroyers are AP3 (AP2 for the Heavies) and strong, great options for shooting down Marines, Bikes, Jetbikes, you name it.
But a lot of options work great for Necrons. Even the Troops are resilient and can wreck vehicles with Gauss. I feel like once people start bringing different lists and playing them more, we’ll see some high placers. Heck, Necrons came in 3rd last Adepticon, though admittedly that was before Eldar and Space Marines came out.
The biggest hinderance to necrons are game length and objectives.
As in the game ends before they can walk across the field?
Yeah I didn’t follow that, either. I never have issues finishing with my Crons. I wonder what Kevin meant by that.
If the game is only a few rounds, due to slow play etc… They excell in the long game
I’ve seen enough slow played games with obsec units to see that necrons are really hard to clear off the board, but you can focus objectives and just ignore it, because the “good necron” armies rarely have it from what I’ve seen.
Well, thanks for clarifying but lol, intentional slow playing is actually just cheating, not a viable strategy.
lol- it’s cheating, but it is a viable (just dooshy) strategy 😉
We are honorable Samurai! We would never do such an underhanded thing! haha
Oops for sure forgot Necrons. I was thinking about them the whole time I was writing the article just forgot to throw them in there.
Totally most worried about necrons
agreed! I think another list that will be out there is super friends though
They are not quite as good in the ITC … I’d still put them on this list though.
Yea super friends / wolfstar with the Libby conclaves are gonna be very very strong. Sure tau can hurt them with ignores cover and the focused fire formation but it should be resilient enough to hit them in combat and then steam role them in combat from there.
Super friends has virtually zero chance against a good tau list
But its super effective vs necrons, gladius marines and demons
Not true. Deathstars are still a threat to Tau superiority, though they are no where near as scary to the Tau as they will an edition earlier.
I feel confident that my nearly all dreadnought in drop pod army will be able to handle all these armies. At least until the end of game turn 1 ?
Lol!
Bold strategy cotton, lets see how that works out for him.
Haha legendary.
I think it would beat an all (mostly) walker Chaos Space Marine list though!
Defilers and Forgefiends are just a new type of bad nowadays, and Maulerfiends have some good points, but really aren’t too good… Finally, the Helbrute… Well, it’s a model I have.
Had to smile as it seemed that assaulting was the answer to a few of these armies. Time to add more Thunderwolves to my list.
I heard about all that assaulting and was thrilled I had my genestealers…
…then I remembered about overwatch, wall of death, ignores cover, my lack of grenades, the inability to assault out of infiltrate or outflank, and the cost per model and was less thrilled.
What are genestealers? Never heard of them.
They come with their own limousine!
You don’t need to add more TWC, Panzer. What you need is a frickin Libby Conclave.