Hello everyone Frankie here to talk a little bit about the new Tau! Be sure to check out the Tactics Corner for more great articles!
This last weekend I took the new Hunter Contingent to a very competitive Tournament and was able to go 3-0. Now let me start by saying I am in no way a Tau expert and have only played a few games with the new Tau so this is just my opinion. That said–DANG!–the new codex is super powerful! I played it weekend that Buffmander didn’t work on the whole army and I was very impressed with how well I did. The Stormsurges are amazing and really fix a lot of problem the old Tau had. Granted I did take a unit of two Stormsurges, which in my opinion is the magic number. The firepower and d3 stomps from both is just too much for most armies to handle. Here is the list I played:
| HQ | ||
| Commander | Drone Controller | 1 |
| Troops | ||
| Strike Team | _ | 5 |
| Strike Team | _ | 5 |
| Strike Team | _ | 5 |
| Elite | ||
| Riptide | Ion Accelerator, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector | 1 |
| Riptide | Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector | 1 |
| Crisis Battlesuits | Missile pod | 1 |
| Fast Attack | ||
| Pathfinder Team | _ | 5 |
| Drones | Marker | 6 |
| Heavy Support | ||
| Broadsides | High-yield missile pods | 2 |
| Lord of War | ||
| Stormsurge | Burst Cannon, Pulse Driver Cannon, Early Warning Override, Shield Generator | 2 |
What makes the new codex so powerful? The Hunter Contingent allows you to use Coordinated Firepower which allows 3+ units to shoot at the same unit and gain +1 BS and can share Markerlight bonuses, too. This is super powerful because now you just need one really good Markerlight unit to buff most of your army. The +1 BS is huge for Tau as well because now they shoot as well as Marines but with a lot more firepower. Now that is the way I read the rule, their are plenty of other ways you can read it. I played the entire event like this and was so impressed with how much scarier the Tau were. The thing that really makes Tau top tier in my opinion though are the Stormsurges. They are ridiculous, especially at BS4, running up the table blasting things. The Stormsurges add a lot of firepower, add a close combat element to a list with there d3 stomps a piece, and allow you to run out and grab objectives without losing much firepower.
Now comes the main question, why do people think the new codex is bad? The reason people feel the new codex is bad is because it plays so much differently than it used to. Since im not an avid Tau player I caught on to the new way they play a lot faster than someone who has been playing the same way for years. They play a lot more aggressively. When I say aggressively, I mean your Riptides are running up the field grabbing objectives along with the Stormsurges. This allows you to keep up on the Maelstrom and throw a wrench in your opponent’s plans. The other big change is charging: I charged every game with the Stormsurges and Riptides. They do work in combat and will often hold up big scary Deathstars. I really enjoy the new way the Tau play and honestly think once everyone catches on, they will enjoy it as well.
What happened at the tournament? First round I played against a War Convocation and just about Tabled it on Turn 6. Round 2 I played against a Necron Decurion with a Lychstar. This game was tough but I was able to pull it out on turn 5. The Stormsurges charged into the Lychstar and stomped out everyone within 2 turns. Game three I played against 4 Imperial Knights. Those dang strength D missiles are powerful! I was able to kill a Knight every shooting phase and finished off the last one on Turn 5 with Broadsides. Overall the army was super powerful and I never felt out matched. I can’t even imagine what would have happened if I shared all the Buffmander rules like some people are reading it. For 140 points my whole army would have ignores cover, twin-linked, and tank hunter/monster hunter. That would have been way too much with the army I took. Two Stormsurges with Twin-linked and ignores cover vs. everything would be way too easy to smash the other player with. The armies I played against wouldn’t have stood a chance and my opponents for sure wouldn’t have had a good time. The +1BS and shared Markelights were enough for me to feel in control of each game and really fixed a lot of problems the army had.
Anyways hopefully you all are enjoying playing with the new Tau and let me know how you have been doing with them. Whats been working for you?
Mostly I don’t like Tau because their codex incentivizes a stand-and-shoot play style where the opponent basically just removes his models from the table. It’s not fun.
That and the threat of Tau doing that in the meta just makes people feel like they need to take death stars even more than ever. Again, not fun.
I believe your two statements are completely opposite of correct
If you read his article, he said that he was more aggressive with movement and board control with Tau then ever before, not “stand-and-shoot”
Secondly, the new Tau will have people LESS likely to take deathstars, as Markerlights (and maybe USR) can be shared upon one single unit. People will be more likely to take MSU
Ya stand and shoot tau don’t go 3-0. Aggressive shoot and scoot tau is the way to go. He ability to jump all over while maintaining an aggressive amount of firepower and what’s makes tau. I’m seeing a lot more games where stormsurges never drop the feet.
Good to here you had fun playing Tau and that you did well!
Stormsurges have been very powerful for me as well, but they do die very quickly if the enemy has the right tools. Some armies have lots of Str 8 AP3 weapons which tear apart stormsurges, especially without the Shield Generator. The only bummer I have with stormsurges is they get no benefit for being in the hunter cadre as they cannot overwatch and free running is useless if you use the stabilizing anchors.
As for sharing of USR, I agree that it would be very powerful, but RAW i believe it is obvious that USR do share. Even RAI i believe that is the intention as well, as the writers would not have even included the statement “resolving their shots as if they were a single unit”. They would have just written “this includes the use of marker light abilities”. They would have just written the second statement and not the first if they did not intend USR sharing.
No Stormsurge should ever take the field without the 4++, that is just not playing them smart.
As for what Coordinated Firepower actually says isn’t even relevant at this point, honestly. Everyone is reading it differently. It comes down to how we choose to play it as a group.
I understand you believe people are reading it differently, but I have been over all of the forums the past month (dakkadakka, bolterandchainsword, and warseer) and 90% of people agree that RAW is USR are shared. Only a vocal minority are complaining about it because they know it will hurt deathstars the most, which is what many tournament players use.
The rule literally says they “fire as if one unit”. If a unit fires, all USR are shared amongst the unit. I am being completely honest when I say I do not believe that anyone who argues that rules is doing so because they believe that it isn’t RAW, but just because they do not want to face it in tournaments.
Let’s stop flogging this dead horse until the poll comes around 🙂
seriously. It’s not like Reece is going to go “You know what, you’re right. 5 sentence comment on an article totally convinced me and I’m switching sides.”
The problem with these “polls” is every person who does not play Tau will vote against the ruling, not because it is incorrect, but because they don’t want to face it. There is a huge bias against when it comes to voting on army specific rules
@ NotreDameGuy: Lol, why do you put polls in quotations? Are they not actually polls? Haha.
But, this objection you state of voter bias comes up frequently and it is false in the scope of the ITC as a collective. We have data proving–factually–that this does not occur. Apply some very, very simply logic to this:
Your theory that ITC voters only vote in their own sel-interest:
Gamers vote in their own self-interest, and given the opportunity, will vote to weaken a faction they do not play.
It takes 51% of the votes in an ITC poll for vote to pass.
No faction in the ITC is played by 51% of the community.
Conclusion: anytime the community is presented with an opportunity to weaken a faction, it will do so. Anytime they are presented with the opportunity to strengthen a faction, they will not do so.
Reality: almost the exact opposite. Every vote to strengthen a faction–including Tau–has passed. Almost every vote to weaken a faction has failed with the exception of a few very powerful rules such as the 2+ reroll save and Invisibility. Therefore, ITC members DO NOT always vote in their own self-interest. Do some do this all the time and some some of the time? Sure. But as a group, this is absolutely not the case. Most ITC members vote with what they believe to be the right thing to do. That is observable fact based on previous polls.
Tau just had a positive vote to allow units of Stormsurges, so, if people voted to hurt Tau that didn’t play Tau, that would not have occurred. Tau also just got all of their experimental units, too. EVERY SINGLE VOTE to help Tau so far in the ITC has passed, lol. Your theory is based strictly on opinion and fear of a ruling that goes against your opinion on the way a rule should be read, which is understandable, but simply untrue.
If the vote does go through to play a toned down version of Coordinated Firepower instead of blaming it on Tau haters, or something silly like that, change your perspective to considering the possibility that the rule as you read it is simply considered too powerful to the point of not being enjoyable for the majority of ITC players. If it passes in the version of it you read it as, feel vindicated that you are in the majority. If your theory that 90% of the people out there agree on your reading of the rule, you have nothing to worry about, right? If it’s just a vocal minority that oppose that reading of the rule, then it won’t pass.
Either way, some folks will be upset and some will be happy with the result of the poll. That is the nature of the beast and no matter the result of the poll, we all must accept the outcome with maturity and the spirit of compromise.
First, we have seen it a number of times that votes that only benefit one codex have allowed for the more powerful interpretation. If your theory that everyone votes in their self interest was true, then we’d have 1:3 ratio of scatter lasers to jetbikes.
Second, if we only go with RAW, we’d have 2++ re-rollable saves and invisible units that cannot be hit with blasts. That is what the rules say. We however, form a community that gets to decide how we want to play. Caring about other people’s fun is important too.
Well I’ve seen the threads and dakka and bolter and war seer as well and no where is there 50% majority let alone 90. So good luck with that argument.
You also need to read a dictionary and check the meaning of that most basic and commonly used word IF.
‘As IF a unit’ is completely different to ‘as a unit’ and in no ways implies they become one unit.
Sigh
“as if” === “as would be the case if” is how I have always understood that use of the words. Perhaps its a British English thing but it does not just imply it – it flat out states it for the purpose of resolving the shooting attack. The use of this language in that context implies that the unit status is only relevant for the purposes of resolving shooting and not for any other rules you might think of.
Good info! I’m still very curious to see how this will hold up against wolfstar/lib conclave.
Depending on what powers go off (very likely everything they try to cast…), a lot of shooting can be negated (LOS to 2+ w/ 4+ FNP, or 3++ w/ 4+ FNP, whole unit with Eternal Warrior, etc…), and in close combat you’ll only have a single chance at getting those 6s on your stomps (which can be LOS’d under ITC) before your Stormsurges fall over dead to a dozen+ S10 attacks, melta bombs, krak grenades, and Force weapons.
This was (one of) the huge challenges for Tau in the old book, and I think even with the most aggressive interpretation of Coordinated Firepower this is still an incredibly steep uphill battle for them… at least if Tau doesn’t have first turn 😛
We’ve got a ~22 man tourney coming up next weekend running the more aggressive interpretation (buffs confer, but not for split fire targets) and two Tau players coming, myself included as the ringer. Both are only running a single Stormsurge, but lots of shooting otherwise. I’ll tweet out some updates and write an article on our site (maybe here, too?) with what we find out!
Stormsurge with 4++ and FnP are surprisingly resilient. Only 1/3 wounds gets through. A Dozen strength 10 attacks would hit with 8, wound with 7, 2.3 actually stick.
They are a LOT harder to kill than you’d think. Frankie went toe-to-toe with a Lychstar with Warscythes with a unit of 2 Stormsurge and killed the entire Star without losing a single Stormsurge.
Fair point.
I may just be jaded as a 30 man unit of Ork boyz took mine down in 2 turns at Da Boyz, and proceeded to roll zero 6s for stomps through the whole event 😛
None the less, a second Stormsurge is probably going to be coming my way soon, if not solely so I can have a pair of Gun Nuts.
I get the nasty stuff like that with orks + misfortune. Things that rely on high toughness just melt to a hundred rending attacks.
Also with the wolfstars. You could add advanced targetting systems to the stormsurges. Apply any 6s on the to hit rolls from cluster missiles / smart missiles to the wolves (there to look out sir the nasty hits too) then hit em with the driver cannon (ignore armour and no fnp) and D missiles.
In that scenario though why would your Stormsurges be in combat? Just shoot the boyz to death.
@Frankie – Check my tourney report at look at the opponent’s deployment zone, haha. Couldn’t kill stuff fast enough before it hit my lines, and several of my units broke and ran off the table turn 1.
Is it wrong that I’m thinking how to add a Culexus to this list?
You’d need to drop both Riptides to fit it in Hunter Contingent I think… assuming you still want double Stormsurge. At least if you want to run him in a Drop Pod or Rhino…
Or drop a riptide + Broadsides I suppose.
I was thinking the same thing
wow tau frankie.. my mind cannot comprehend haha. Awesome performance though bud! I love this new style of Tau.. way more fun than sit back and reroll everything but lose anyways.
The new Tau is scary good. Just played a game against Paul McKelvey, the #1 ITC Tau player currently and all I can say is this….I am impressed! He had his whole frickin’ army shooting at my Centstar at BS8-9 thanks to the Hunter Contingent and Markerlights.
And what’s worse, I brought a Void Shield Generator. He left a bait unit on the table on T1 and I gated over to try to kill it (of course he had other units elsewhere on the table). Then next turn, his entire army came in via deep strike and they all landed within my VSG! LOL!
Btw, we played Tau full-on hard mode (I wanted to see how that was like) and I didn’t run Invisibility.
So what did you think or hard mode? Reasonable or OP? I have played a few games with it and I really don’t think it’s too bad as long as it doesn’t work on splitfire/target lock shots, only against the target unit of the coordinated firepower (going to a ETC tournament where USR’s are shared next month).
Depends. If you play USR-sharing with Target Locks working, then yeah, it’s pretty OP. However, our game didn’t really showcase the power of the Hunter Contingent very well. BS8/9 isn’t that far off from Twin-linkage and Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter wasn’t applicable to my infantry-based deathstar. Only army-wide Ignores Cover made a difference here, but fortunately for me, the majority of his offense (probably 75%) was not AP1/2-based against my deathstar with 2+ armor.
Then again, the sheer volume of wounds that he was causing sans would be enough to kill all but the most extreme of builds.
While I believe that USR should share I don’t think units that targetlock or split fire should benifit from the coordinated fire power buffs. From playtesting when played like this is strong on single targets or units but really not get breaking. Great for handling death stars but as soon as you have to deal with more than a few units a turn it’s almost redundant.
We’re the incredible about of wounds a result of the Buffmander or just the coordinated fire power rule in general. Would it have been almost if not as effective just using markerlights?
Yes, that’s one intepretation – shared USR’s that are not passed on via Target Locks. But we played the no-holds-barred Intepretation. But with that said, we’ll just have to wait and see how the ITC folks vote on the next ITC poll.
People who knows how to play against the new Tau can mitigate their tactics somewhat. Then again, with some armies, that’s really hard to do. Also, with the exception of probably some of the most experienced players, the majority of players will have problems against the new Tau. That is the main concern of the ITC founders currently. It’s the same concern with re-rollable 2+’s, Invisibility and shooty D. The real question isn’t “what is actual RAW” or even “what is RAI”. Rather, from their perspective, it is more playable for the majority of the player base.
The incredible amount of wounds was caused by all the increases to BS from both the formations as well as Markerlights. Honestly, with twin-linkage and Ignores Cover already, the Markerlights were overkill. The only thing they helped out was when he was firing blasts. He had a unit of 3 crisis suits with the S8 AP4 blasts and with BS8/9, he was getting S8 10-11 hits each time he fired them. Of course, the increased BS also helped the riptide’s Ion blast stay on target.
Oh, and he was running missile broadsides with missile drones who were twin-linked and BS 8/9. That unit was crazy! Just that unit alone was doing about 25-30 wounds a turn!
Its very powerful thats for sure. But is it really any more powerful than necron decruion, Sky hammer, Eldar madness (295 point WK, scatt bikes, D everywhere), Super Friends, Thunderwolf stars, Ad Mech with all the free war gear or the various psychic spam that tau have no access or defense for.
I just thin its important to remember that Tau can only really do damage to the enemy in on phase, shooting (other than stomps from the stormsurge). So it makes sense that our shooting is far stronger than anyone else’s (and Eldar and Grav spam are still better).
did they change the rule where markerlights can’t get past bs 5?
Yes, you can now go up to BS10 if you really want to, although there’s usually little reason to go above 5.
It’s a corner case for sure, but in the event that there’s only one target you want your entire army to shoot at, you already painted it with a ton of markerlights AND for whatever reason you can’t use the Buffmander to TL it (maybe he’s dead, maybe you didn’t take one, etc) then it could make sense to boost all the way up to BS10 for effectively BS5 TL shooting on the guys that aren’t already TL (like the Stormsurge).
Obviously this isn’t going to happen often (who puts a massive priority target in firing range and LoS of an entire Tau army?!) but it is a remote possibility.
So I noticed something in the new tau codex. Airbursting frag projectors are not take only 1 per army anymore. Part of me thinks this is really good for suits that need to clean up objectives. Whats everyone’s take? For 15 points you get a large blast str4 ap5 ignore cover barrage shot.
It’s been discussed a bit; I think it’s an interesting option to have, most especially because it is a (large) blast weapon in a codex that doesn’t have all that many of them. Ignores Cover is also a nice rule to have built-in, although obviously Tau get access to more of that than most books do.
The Cyclical Ion Blaster was similarly changed and now presents an interesting alternative to Missile Pods for those willing to get close.
The Cyclic is great at Killing Culexusssss.
I think they’re both viable and the wide variety of reasonable things you can do with Crisis suits is what makes Tau compelling to me.
I don’t think either is overpowered, though, since they have relatively short 18″ ranges. The AFP is a little less risky since you could put a large LoS block in the way and fire over it, but with 18″ large blast shooting there’s always a chance you’ll just hit yourself. CIBs are a bigger risk since you’re one bad assault move away from losing the Crisis unit to a charge at that range.
I think it really depends on local meta; if you want to be a jerk and kick the snot out of some poor Ork player trying to have some fun with Green Tide then a bunch of AFPs would be devastating. You still have to ask yourself if it’s better than flamers, since they’re literally the same profile for ten points less and significantly reduced range (but no scatter). CIBs in the Retaliation Cadre sound fun if very risky, but definitely worth trying.
I have played the army enough times in all interpretations of the contingent, the idea that target locks and the contingent with the buffmander suddenly making the army broken is silly. All it enables you to do is crush a battle company with broadsides, which is not different than the old dex and fire base. No one is going to win a game target locking crisis suits or stealth suits with ignores cover and TL. The real advantage comes from sharing tank hunter and monster hunter, the later being what tau have always struggled with getting.
As for storm surges, that argument is mute also, even if they anchor in, it is not different than a white scars libby conclave with a few chapter masters dropping orbital blasts with ignores cover, but those are barrage.
Jy2 didnt mention is that even though he didnt run invisibility he was still able to make his cent star survive almost unscratched by my “hard mode” Tau. With the white scars relic he was able to run around the board and freely kill 2 units a turn. Storm surges would have disappeared if I was running them, along with any chance of getting maelstrom.
Fortunately for me, I just played against a Tau player in a tournament just before our game. From that game, I learned that perhaps Endurance was slightly more useful to my centstar than Invisibility, at least in the case of Tau. 😉
I also got lucky that you depleted the Void Shields and none of them came back up before you dropped your army inside my VS range. Gave me just enough time to take out those broadsides first.
I dont understand how you would lose Stormsurges to Centurions? You on average only take 4 wounds from a twin-linked Centurion unit and then can either charge them or shoot them to death. 8 D missiles and 2 Large blast strength 10 ap 2 are pretty good!
Also the thing you are forgetting about the buffmander sharing buffs is twin-linked and ignore cover without using any markerlights. That is insane! Ignore cover alone is a huge buff and now twin-linking the units that are not normally is just to much in my opinion.
A 400 point gargantuan (and its more than that if you put a shield generator on) should not be getting gibbed in a single turn by centurions costing half as much. That would be insane even for Grav.
Equal point in centurions will be quite likely to kill it in a single turn, if they roll sub-par you finish it off with krak missiles or any other Similar weapon which is a pretty common profile for marines.
Paul, I respect your opinion but I have to disagree with you, here. A libby conclave with 2 Chapter Masters is the same thing as a Stormsurge with Coordinated Firepower? No…no, lol, not even remotely close. OB fires once. The Stormsurge can fire twice a turn, after the first, so that is dramatically more shots for one thing. Two, best case scenario, the OB is twin linked, having 55% chance to hit. The Surge with marker lights and Coordinated Firepower can literally not miss, it can’t scatter far enough to do so. Surge with ignores cover is automatic, OB needs a successful psychic check and not get denied, or be white scars with the Hunter’s Eye. Conclave doesn’t get monster or tank hunter if they are white scars, either. Barrage can be hidden from under a ledge just like you can hide from a direct fire shot on the Surge. Seriously, they’re not even remotely comparable, haha.
And why are folks still saying Centstars kill Surges in one shot? Do the math on it, that isn’t even remotely accurate. 15 shots from Centurions average 1 wound per Cent on the Surge, 1.3 if they are twin linked. A unit of Centurions will not kill a Surge on even hot dice, and the Surge then fires back and obliterates the unit with can’t miss, ignores cover strength 10 pie plates. They have Draigo? So what, move the Surge 12″ so that he is not the closest model and then obliterate the unit. And yes, you are getting malestrom points with Surges because they are the unit getting them, haha. They move 12″, they highly mobile. You will find you plant the heels only in very specific circumstances, typically it’s better to remain mobile.
I think there’s going to be 2 camps of Tau players. No, not talking about Coordinated Fire. Rather, it’s going to be Stormsurge and the non-Stormsurge Tau players. Just like when the new Necrons came out, there were the Decurion Necron players and the CAD Necron players. We will see which group wins out in the tournament scene….and I suspect it won’t be the Stormsurge group.
>You will find you plant the heels only in very specific circumstances, typically it’s better to remain mobile.
Actually, unless you’re in immediate danger of being charged, you usually want to plant down. If it benefits you to move you can always pull up stakes at the beginning of next turn anyways, so there’s typically very little disadvantage to doing so.
Also, it’s kinda weird that you say in your first paragraph that “the Stormsurge can fire twice a turn, after the first,” and then immediately follow that up with the above.
I think the Stormsurge has some uses, but people seem to be assuming that it will ALWAYS have Markerlight support and ALWAYS be getting the benefit of the Buffmander. Anyone with experience playing against Tau knows that you shoot their Markerlights and support units first, not the Riptides/Broadsides/etc- and the same will be true with the Stormsurge. Most Tau lists don’t have any really strong places to hide the Commander at where he won’t be picked off, and BLOS terrain only takes you so far.
Abuse puppy understands. Also 2 str 10 ap2 templates or even 4 is not going to dent a real death star. In fact they will giggle at it. Tank hunter is a mute point on the surge since it is already ordnance, and 4 str 10 ap2 templates is gonna be lucky to kill any mc worth dedicating that much of your army to killing. The d missiles are a huge joke too. Even taking full buffmander upgrades. That’s 8 marker lights, (which the above list can’t generate and use Buffy) and then even with tl yoy are hitting 6 of 8, 1 will do nothing 1 will install gib 1 model and the others will more than likely kill 1 more because of invun saves. And this is assuming that the opponent didn’t deep strike on you to make before hand or similar.
How did you set up your list? did you put the 6 marker drones into the 1 required auxillary?
Yeah the Marker Drones were the required “tax unit” haha.
The thing that I don’t get about the USR supporters, is that they think, RAW, this is how it is supposed to work.
In order for the USR to be shared, all the units shooting become a single unit for one turn of shooting. This is how people are claiming GW wants it, and how they want it.
But somehow, Target Locks magically don’t work? Is it because people are “self nerfing it”? Does that not invalidate the “but it’s a unit!” argument? You’re taking the logic of them firing as one unit, but then taking away rules that units get because…reasons?
If you have to change and interpretation in order to make your interpretation work (fairly), you might not have it right, don’t you think?