Hey everyone, here are the results from the poll!
This vote went fairly predictably, IMO. The only question I felt really uncertain about the outcome was the question to count Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves as having Chapter Tactics as they essentially do. It was a very close vote, but the community decided to maintain the status quo.
Should we treat Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels as having Chapter Tactics?
- Yes: 589
- No: 663
So, your super friends are safe and sound. I would have preferred to take a notch out of Deathstars as in my opinion they are bad for the game, but, in this specific instance, I was in the minority. Compromise is what the ITC is about, and so I will compromise on this topic as others must on other topics.
The next one was cause for a bit of a stir, as all rules issues tend to do.
The new Tau Gargantuan Creature, the Stormsurge, can be taken in units of 1-3. Currently in the ITC, we only allow a single Lord of War to be taken. Should we make an exception to the rule for the Tau Stormsurge and allow it to be fielded as a unit?
- Unit size 1-3: 737
- Limit them to a unit of 0-1: 524
So Tau players, feel free to bust out a unit of the new Stormsurge! I think a unit of 1 will still be the most popular, but 2 may be good. Time will tell.
The question I was most invested in personally, was to allow the use of Experimental Forge World rules or not. I really wanted to see this pass as it opens up a lot of fun options such as Chaos Knights which folks have been asking for for ages, and the poor Tau suits that have lingered in limbo for years such as the R’Varna. It’s a good day to be a Tau player!
Should we allow “Experimental” Forge World rules in the ITC?
- Yes: 877
- No: 388
So there you have it! By a huge margin, Experimental rules are good to go, and they are also really easy to find as they are all available for download on FW’s site.
Vive le democratie!
Thank you to all who voted and continue to contribute to the ITC being what it is.
I will ask this in the rules question page also but was curious what the ITC take will be on Daemon Engine of XYZ rules. There’s some FW emails floating around that muddied the waters and people are assuming the chaos knights get daemon of XYZ rules in addition to the rules listed in the pdf. So nurgle knight with shrouded and such. Not how I read the knight pdf but the FW email is making it less clear.
Ah, we will address that. It’s clear to me, they get the Daemon rule, and then the other listed benefits, none of which are Daemon of…
We’ll address it.
Thanks! Found an example of what is has muddied things, just in case it helps:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/07/chaos-knight-question-answered.html
Yeah, lol, what? Haha, that answer didn’t really answer the question.
If they mention it is a Daemon, but then mention it gets Hatred Daemon of X, that means they see the distinction between the two. Daemon Aligned with X has no definition so yeah. However, at the price listed for the upgrade, I could see that being the case. I will write FW too, see what they say.
Well it all worked okay.
: )
Yeah, you big nervous nelly! haha
very surprised people want units of LoW o-O will be interesting!
Well, to be fair, we already have a unit of IKnights, so I think folks may be used to it.
Imperial knights as an army looks over powered. I was lucky enough not to play it and don’t know what the Titans were called but someone was running 3 huge dudes with big guns and 2 tanks for an army in 1500 points league on Monday. I think the tau player had those 3 huge tau suits from 6th codex but the Knights were a lot larger. Game lasted about 30 minutes. I mean, an army that small with such heavy Titans 40k feels a lot different. I’m tempted to run a chaos Titan but I dunno… I kinda like pre- super heavy armies. And they’re so much $ compared to rest of army….I definitely don’t mind games being shorter sometimes tho but how is a “regular” army supposed to take down 1, let alone 3?
1000+ points of units that can’t overwatch? Fine by me!
Two can be a unit as well
Are you really voting to change a codex before it is even released?
I like what you guys are trying to do but pump the brakes a bit!
This vote was scheduled months ago. There is a new release every week. There will always be some issues and votes that occur at inconvenient times. With the rapid release schedule, there’s nothing we can do about it although–obviously–we’d like to get more time to do things. We just don’t have that luxury in most cases.
To be fair- they are voting to NOT change the codex when it launches, as current ITC rules would not allow the codex to use the 2 or 3 person unit.
Can chaos knights take a Legacy of Ruin from IA13? Can’t see any RAW restriction myself.
Yes, it appears so as the Chaos Knight has neither Daemonic Possession or Daemonic Resilience. I think we’ll be seeing quite a few 1st War for Armageddon upgrades on the field.
Maelstrom Raider for an outflanking Khorne Errant?
12″ radius Dirge Caster? Yes!
Getting +D3 VP’s if it survives a game? Also awesome.
First war for Armageddeon is cool, though it wont be buffing itself (but sexy as hell in the middle of my KDK army).
Damn it, I wonder if I have time to get it ready before the LVO, haha.
Too bad the legacies can only be taken on a vehicle in a codex: chaos space marines army. No CD or KDK knights can take the them.
So a KDK or CD player will have to take a small CSM CAD. It’s not much different from the Be’Lakor tax, but it is worth noting.
KDK players will have to decide if they want a relic or blood for the blood god.
Ah, I read it a little differently. It says a Legacy may be taken in a Codex: Chaos Space Marines army, not something specifically from the codex so the Knight could take it.
Oh wait, I misunderstood you, I see, yeah, you would have to take a CSM detachment to put the legacy on the Knight.
Sweet. Time to put tigarious in a squad oh quad rapier mortors for 12 small blast templates with rending
Do it with T-Fire cannons, they also ignore cover =P
But this has pinning.
Bqutq tbh, it also gives me way to get more firepower into my bike list. Something I was lacking.
Yeah, totally. Plus it’s direct fire ability is savage. Sunder is better than Tank Hunter!
I’m surprised that multiple GCs made it in. Meh.
I wasn’t, TBH. This is no Wraithknight, so I think people are a little more comfortable with it.
Regardless, I find the slippery slope of what is allowed to be interesting. I don’t disagree per se, or even think it’s hypocritical, as the meta changes, I just find the whole thing interesting.
I’m still more or less a complete neophyte when it comes to 7th edition tournament gaming, so my surprise shouldn’t be all that…er…surprising.
The landscape has changed dramatically. The power level has cranked up to an 11 so a lot of things that seemed crazy not so long ago are now passe.
some men just want to watch the world burn.
All that it really means is that people interpret the ruling to be 0-1 LOW slot, instead of 0-1 LOW models. It’s more in line with how the core rules of the game are than anything.
Everyone’s worried about an unreleased communist battle suit and a nurgle knight while I’m over here wondering why the actual threat wasn’t addressed…. You know, the invisible rerolling jink saves, hit and run, huge table footprint, fast moving, good against grav, furious charging, prescience having, thunderhammering, stornshield blocking deathstar that’s kicking major tournament butt lately (I’m sure I missed a few other attributes of this death mobile also)
Thanks Obama lol
Yeah, I was with Reece on the death star toning down, but people want them, so I guess that is how it goes.
Ya I’m more worried about the mass amount of cheap str d coming with the updated eldar book. Interesting to see how the meta shakes up with all these new models and lists being allowed. Still seeing demons, marines, and eldar being the big three with possibly eldar pulling ahead maybe with a resurgence of taudar.
The ITC vote in no way changes how most deathstars function, even if it had passed- the SM rules mean that you lose only Chapter Tactics that apply to UNITS, not to MODELS. So you would still have FNP for your Iron Hands or Hit and Run for your White Scars no matter whether you are joined to some SW, GK, or another SM chapter.
the way you keep posting this in every thread makes me think people are disagreeing with you somewhere AP? I think it’s pretty clear as you say it…
People keep saying that the vote would’ve “toned down” deathstars when in reality it didn’t affect them at all. The only meaningful conclusion I can draw is that they think you lose ALL Chapter Tactics when in a mixed unit, which isn’t the case.
Umm… Invis is already nerfed in ITC, as are 2++ re-rollable saves.
The funny thing is this would in no way toned down deathstars. SW and DA could still ally and get everything that WS and SW would have. Depending on how you interpret the chapter tactics rule they would lose nothing, although I disagree with Abuse Puppy here. On top of that they get a rerollable jink save. What it world have done is pushed people into a list more like Aaron Alongs (spelling?). The real problem with deathstars right now is the psychic phase and the librarian conclave.
The librarian conclave actually wins my vote for the WTF was GW thinking? award… Even beating out wraithknights.
Aleong… No biggie. 😉
Funny enough this vote does almost nothing to curb the super friends deathstar. Just take Dark Angels and Space Wolves. Which is why I think that particular vote was kinda silly.
We presented it the way the community addressed it.
So does the 1-3 LOW make multiple wraith knights a reality in ITC tourneys now, too?
Nope! Only the stormsurge or Imperial knights can be taken in threes… people have a hate on for Eldar and wraithknights…
No. Wraithknights cannot be taken in units, the Stormsurge can. It’s something a bit new.
I’m worried that the multi storm surge is preemptive. We won’t know til this weekend if you’re talking about giving them up to 6 str D large blasts with ignores cover (yes I know only up to 10in), honestly though I think the possible 6 72″ vindicator shots are more scary (again with possible ignore cover and up to bs 5).
MIssed that the D isn’t a blast, mb.
And you can get six BS3 blast shots for “only” 1100pts! A total steal!
Easier to think of it as 0-1 LoW force org slot, instead of 0-1 LoW models. Imperial Knights themselves are taken as a special detachment or formations, which are outside this restriction.
Exactly
Chaos Knight of Khorne gets Blood for the Blood God in KDK; that is pretty badass.
I’m excited about experimental units! Now to figure out how to use my Kytan to the best of its abilities.
Well to be fair wrsithknights are waaaaaay over the top. Even in the future if they allowed multiple LoW I’m sure that would still be a one of. Unless you can manage to convince someone a stompa at 770 is worth two wraithlords.
As far as power cranked to 11, not everyone can claim that. I was so pissed when I saw the new ork codex I wanted to fly to england and punch everyone involved right down to the guys delivering it. How many more years are the pre necrons 7th end codex holders going to have to take it in the pants?
Yeah, poor Orks =( and I agree, the WK is way too cheap for what it does.
With these deathstars, I’d love to see a re-vote on unregulated ranged D sometime soon. They are still a source of much gnashing of teeth, especially with hit and run, str 10, 3++ thunderwolf grossness, even with invisibility nerfed.
Returning Str D to its “base” form wouldn’t actually affect the deathstars really any at all- the Str 10 will pop even T5 guys instantly, and three wounds eliminates anything but Chapter Smasher in a single hit.
The current ITC D Table wrecks them just as well as the unrestricted D table…
Ya I think the only real gain from the book str d is the fact it crushes Superheavies or gargatuans on a 6.
Forgeworld likely just gave elder a ton more cheap str d platforms why don’t we wait to see how that effects the game first.
My prediction return of taudar.
Nope. You’re right. I’m anasshole. LOL
Its almost like Reece knew what he was doing?
The new Space Marine Quad Mortar Rapier Batteries can be a game changer. Have you guys seen the incredible rules these things have?
They even have Chapter Tactics
Yeah, it’s beastly.
Might I suggest change the SH/GC rule, to “…a single unit of SH/GC or a single detachment of SH/GC…”, I think that accomplishes what you are trying to get at and is easier to read then the current rule.
The only result I don’t agree with is the Experimental Rules. I am happy Chaos gets to use their Knight, but I just don’t want to deal with those stupid Tau suits.
Great. I look forward to Storm Surges removing large volumes of my models from the table with me having nothing to say about it.
I really need to make a ‘Welcome to 40k’ meme with the picture of Dawson from Dawson’s Creek crying. I’m with you, bud. It’s all a bit too much for me at this point.
I look forward to this as well, but as I will be bringing Tau, I think this is a good thing. I am tired of my opponents of having a say in me destroying them.
I think 3 Stormsurges would be better for me to face than most Tau builds with most of my armies, lol. Especially with ITC rules.
Tau do that already! We’ll see how it goes but I am doubting it will be anything like Wraithknights.
This poll on top of the new codex could put Tau into the realm of extreme variability, which would be cool! Can’t wait to see all the crazy list’s people come up with.
Yeah, good week for Tau players!
I stil think tau need eldar for the psychic crutch. Tau will no doubt be good especially given the fsct they just gained yvarna r’varna and the Stormsurge but taudar is my bet that will come back with avengence. I fully expect the eldar fw update to be loaded with even more cheap str d.
If Tau gets the boost people expect and Unless tau ignore cover gets nerfed tau hard counters dark Angels reroll cover shenanigans. Taudar 2016′ that’s my guess.
Yay! now to see if they’ll let us use tiger shark ax-1…. I know a flyer with 12/12/10 and 6 hull points and a D weapon is intimidating… but ya know, it’s usually 700pts…
I voted to keep the current chapter tactics rule, because your proposed change would not hurt death-stars at all, because the dark angels do not lose any benefits, and the space wolfs do not ether. so enacting this rule simply further restricts non-death-star like armies from alliing with their battle brothers to full effect.
i would be for it if space wolfs loose counter attack, and dark angels loose the ravenwing / deathwing bonus, because then you do hurt deahstar armies.
on a secondary note IMO the super-friends army is not even that bad as far as deathstars go. you can get angels on that to take out the not so hardened models, and it only moves so far. Screamer star on the other hand, is for the purposes of a 5 turn game with limited points is basically unkillable, and its made up of jetbikes so you can’t out run them. if you want to get rid of some deathstars don’t look at space marines look at daemons IMO