Unless you’ve been in a court mandated hiatus from the internet due to alleged drunken stalking of an ex girlfriend which totally happened to a friend of yours, you might have noticed that there has been a slight disturbance in the wargaming forums as of late. No, Matt Ward has not signed on to write the latest Night Lords novella for the Black Library, which would be totally AWESOME! We have instead had the confirmation that Games Workshop has officially pulled the plug on Warhammer Fantasy. While some had held up hope that the upcoming Age of Sigmar release would be an introductory box set into a 9th edition Warhammer Fantasy, multiple sources (included every GW rep on the planet) have emphatically declared that Age of Sigmar IS the new game system and there would be no new editions (or support) of Warhammer Fantasy.
The trickle of information released of the simplified rule set as well as details of how the game is to be played have caused a slow burn of hatred and resentment towards Games Workshop that seems about ready to boil over. On one hand you have Fantasy players who rightfully feel burned by the company in which they have spent considerable time (in some cases decades) and money on a game system that has been cast aside by its creator. Joining them in the chorus of hatred are players who do not or have not played Warhammer Fantasy at all but are enraged by the overly simplistic and unbalanced rules set that Games Workshop have created for the new system. On the other hand we have enthusiastic players who are thrilled to see a new game system that can be quickly picked up and played by anyone with a few bucks in their pocket and a beer buzz on their brain.
For me, I see both sides of the argument. I was brought into the hobby by a friend when I was 12 years old or so. He had the Warhammer starter box with the Lizardmen and Brettonians, and though he made me play the stupid lizards while he got to control the regal knights and their retainers, I was instantly hooked. My parents didn’t have enough money to buy me a lot of models but they did get me the High Elf codex as a birthday present and I would spend hours and hours sitting in my room listening to the Aquabats and reading about Eltharion the Grim and Grom the Paunch duking it out on the shores of Ulthuan. Though I never had the money as a kid and fell in love with 40k after returning to GW as an adult, Warhammer Fantasy has always held a place in my heart and seeing such an iconic and nostalgic games system thrown into the bin as so much trash certainly does not sit well with me. I’m a realist, however, and I know that Games Workshop is running a business. The simple fact is the models from the Warhammer Fantasy line were not selling and through a series of baffling moves including increasing the unit sizes AND raising the cost of the models themselves Games Workshop effectively shut out any new fans they might have found. Though we might long for the days when Games Workshop was run by a fat bloke and a Jervis Johnson with hair, the fact of the matter is that once they accepted people’s money and became a publicly traded entity their number one job was to pay dividends to their shareholders. So in typical Games Workshop fashion of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, the decision was made that it was time to let Warhammer Fantasy die off and a new age of fantasy skirmish battles to begin.
![baby_out_with_bathwater_3[1]](https://frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/baby_out_with_bathwater_31.gif)
To be honest, I think the whole thing could have been handled with a bit more finesse. Telling people that Age of Sigmar was going to be a new version of Warhammer Fantasy (or at least not DENYING the claim) was completely irresponsible. Age of Sigmar is an entirely new game system which has some loose attachments to classic Warhammer Fantasy. Telling players that their old models will still be used in the Age of Sigmar is also a poor move as yes, technically your old Swordmasters will be useable in the game but they will not be the tough bastards you so lovingly purchased, assembled, and painted over a month long period. Old models will indeed be useable via PDF Warscroll downloads, but they will have the same streamlined rules that the new releases will have. As the game progresses and more and more new factions of Orruks and Aelfs (wtf?) are released we will see the gradual fading away of the old models and units as older gamers leave the hobby and new ones take their place and have no idea what Warhammer Fantasy even was. Of course, these are just my personal opinions written late at night as I scramble to hit my deadline but they are written with true emotions. I am sad to see the death of such a long running and beloved game system and universe such as Warhammer Fantasy. The slow death and disappearance of the characters and units that populated it’s universe will be equally as depressing. I am also excited to see if Games Workshop’s gamble will pay off. Will we see the throngs of gamers young and old clamor to play a game with amazing looking models and a simplistic rule set? Hell, it’s worked for Fantasy Flight Games, why shouldn’t it work for the old boys in Nottingham as well?
So what are your thoughts on the new system Age of Sigmar? Enraged at the of the classic Warhammer Fantasy or excited to take part in a brand new game system from Games Workshop?
My guess is that it will flop big time.
It will drive away the old veterans, and not be attractive enough for lots of new players.
But we will see. Exiting times indeed…
I disagree, I think it will attract many new players. It is geared towards new players trying to pick up a game. It also is a modern skirmish game, in the same kinda line of hordes and other such games. WHFB was a dying game and the veterans already lost interest. The amount of money they had to sync into the game was not worth the, give or take, 15% of their money they were making from it.
If you by horde you mean PP warmachine/hordes, i couldnt disagree more. I play warmahordes and have read the new fantasy rules. Not much simillar there, except cards.
New fantasy is hardly a game at all. More a excuse to play with soldiers.
So the Dark Elves with their Doomfire Warlocks and Kharibdyss monsters will now represent the forces of Order?
The elves were united by Malekith during the End Times, so yes.
“Order” does not mean “good”
I never could get myself into fantasy. I’m a 40k player since 4th edition (the golden age of chaos marines). So this new Age of Sigmar is actually appealing to me, as the fantasy rules I started reading were more confounding than even 40k. I like the idea of a smaller size game playable in less time w less rules to purchase and digest, but w the same high quality models I’ve come to enjoy (and that also look useable in 40k to some extent).
And all those other small scale games from new companies have little fan base for me to play with aside from Xwing( I’d prefer a table top game w all the Jedi and troops and other things I had as toys), Infinity (I really dislike the anime look, I hate Tau too), and Warmahordes (ugh, talk about complex and huge rule sets).
So while I get the ire of veteran fantasy players, be patient and I think they’ll still make your old models useable (like Warmahordes does). Let us remember that chess has a super simple rule set and yet remains a game of heady tactics a few thousand years running!
Having been through something similar with Battletech, and later Mechwarrior, it is just sad. But things always change and this makes space for something new. I personally had not bought a single fantasy model since the last fantasy starter until End Times came along. I get the feeling that the popularity of End Times was a shock to GW, hence the short supply of books. But I’m as much to blame as GW. All the new shiney fun was in 40K.no one was playing fantasy at my LGS and I just was tired of carting them Brets around hoping for a game when I could always get a game of 40k. While I think rules are important, I think the models are critical. We’ve proven time and again we will put up with a lot of crap in 40k as long as the sexy new models keep coming. I hope they have success. I’m going to give it a whirl. But I’m a realist too. The market isn’t the same as it was 30 years ago, the competition is fierce, quality matters and community involvement has become a major driving force. Can the GW stores fill the same role as fan driven community leadership supported bye the game company in other games? I don’t think there are enough of them for this game to have real success. 40k is an outlier but even that was originally backed by GW. I think Age of Sigma will be a georgeous looking fun to play game that will suffer an aborted birth simply deu to GWs lack of community support.
I have to agree with most of your observations, particularly your last ones. A long time ago GW could not be beaten when it came to community support. That took them a long way with both players and local shops. Alas this also cost money, which the (now) shareholders want in their own pockets. Additionally, the launch pricing for AoS is reported as $125 US / $150 CDN. If they wanted to increase the odds of success this should have been priced under $100 in order to gain some real traction with both curious new gamers and suspicious veteran gamers. As for myself, I will not be in a hurry to shovel (yes, it’s been that long) the dust off my old fantasy armies until I have time to seriously evaluate this new game.
Is 8th edition so broken that it’s not even worth playing any more?
Can that existing editions ruleset not be modified by a savvy group of people such as yourselves (as is done with the ITC yeah?) and released as a community driven errata? If that wasn’t the apex, can the same not be done for a previous editions ruleset incorporating the best bits of the newer additions?
If they stopped at 8th, and it wasn’t terrible, surely that’s a win for the fantasy community. It’s not like they are kicking their way in to every gamers home and ripping the BRB in half while you shield your crying wife and kids in the corner of the gaming room so you might as well just keep going with it..
“Can we fix it?”
“Yes we can!”
Why can’t we as a community take control of 8th edition and develop it just as communities have not let Blood Bowl and Epic die on the vine.
I would say we have a splendid opportunity here.
If the community can stick to a single rule set and has strong central leadership, you may be able to pull it off.
The Swedes behind the comp system are working on 9th ed Fantasy: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=129642
I don’t think you can comp this pile of garbage. You don’t even have points to work with.
GW not supporting both Age of Sigmar and 8th Edition fantasy is a mistake.
I used to have 13 fantasy armies, and 3 40k… now i have 8 40k, and 3 fantasy armies. I also have 3 Warmachine armies, and a bolt action army. It’s hard to complain like this, but sometimes GW makes you feel like a battered wife. You love the game and the hobby, and then you buy the dark angel codex and you look at the ravenwing detachment with 3 HQs, but only one model to fill it and want to cry. Slowly but surely GW will drive me and my money further and further away.
At least the horus heresy books are damn good. damn damn good.
As someone who has spent more than half his life playing WFB, I agree Warhammer Fantasy is dead.
Even though they tag the new game as Warhammer Age of Sigmar, to me it will only be AoS. Cause it ain’t my Warhammer! 😉
That said I am more than willing to give it a go and see if it actually works! Especially since it looks extremely scalable army size wise. So once we have some Warscrolls to cover the old armies we should get together and take it for a drive, that is if you are up to that Jason!?!
Cheers,
Jim
To me, the best part about this is that it finally convinced me to pull the trigger on Warmachine. I’d had a couple hundred dollars earmarked for this but this, this just looks like a disaster to me. No points, no real factions, ridiculous names purely for IP purposes, wayyyy oversimplified rules. I think I’d rather play a skirmish game with a real rulebook and, ya know, point values.
It’s sad though that there isn’t a better alternative for ranked tactical combat. Warhammer 6th and 7th edition were really great game systems.
Tomguycot, give a nose to Warzone. At the Martinez, CA location we are all putting together small warbands. Great looking models and amazing fluff. Not as many players as PP games but also half the cost of them.
I’ll have to give that a look. Is it skirmish based or rank and file?
It’s skirmish. Imagine a WW1 steam punk type thing but in the future with terraformed planets, Daemons, and a space church.
Great article Clown Baby!
Although I am saddened to see the end of Warhammer Fantasy. ( I started as Bretonnians from the starter set) I am excited about this new game. I think that we will see familiar characters, revamped and with new models. In comics you would call it a reboot, like the Ultimate Avengers. I think in the end there will be point values and more rules. It just needs to grow into that.
Well said. I have been playing fantasy since it was first released. I also play 40k. I would say I have upwards of 15k worth of products including painted armies, maybe more. I have been a loyal customer of GW for the past 25+ years. For instance before Fantasy or 40k were ever played in my home town, I set up painting leagues, demonstration games and tournaments. We now have a flourishing Fantasy and 40k following and a LGS that fully supports the hobby. I also inducted my son in the game at the age of 8, he is now 17 and an avid warhammer fan.
It is extremely upsetting to me personally, that 27 years of painting, purchasing and promoting Fantasy models is just taken away. I understood that at some point, when I was too old and gray and fat to play, I would set aside the hobby, but to have it taken away from me is a bag over the head, punch in the face I didn’t deserve.
One thing you said completely sums up what I think happened to Warhammer Fantasy:
“The simple fact is the models from the Warhammer Fantasy line were not selling and through a series of baffling moves including increasing the unit sizes AND raising the cost of the models themselves Games Workshop effectively shut out any new fans they might have found.”
GW ran this game into the ground over the past 10 years with their increased pricing, lack of game balance and indifference to its customer base. Now GW apologists are saying, “Well what do you expect, Fantasy models were not selling.” The fault with Fantasy sales did not lie with the customer base, who clung to the game for grim death despite its incarnations, it lies squarely on GW and its corporate mentality.
I will absolutely not be supporting AOS in an form or manner. My voice is the lead voice at my LGS and I am telling any player new and old to avoid this game. I am far from alone in this, my fellow players are outraged. I have good cause for this position. After all, GW pulled the plug on Fantasy after amassing 25 + years of fluff, models and loyal followers, who is to say they won’t do the same a year from now with AOS? Considering it took them less four months after the Archaon release on 3-15-15 to completely invalidate all of the rules and armies from the End Times, I can’t recommend GW’s newest “stunt” to anyone.
Thanks for listening.
I’m just a 40k player. I thought about branching into fantasy, and was reading into AoS rumors.
Thanks GW for saving me some cash, because this game is complete NOPE.
It amazes me how a company can make such bad decisions and be so utterly cut off from its customers.
Will not this mean that Kings of War will be that much better overall? Simplified rules but still more of the type of game Warhammer have. I think it has a good opportunity to take over the market then.
I sure hope so. I know they are trying, lets keep our fingers crossed and see what they come up with.
I thought GW said they going to support this new fantasy for years to come. but that just what i heard with no evident to support it.
This smacks of a GW ploy to move product sitting on shelves, burdening their balance sheet and little more.
What expenditure has their been on AoS? One starter set of two sprues and a fair sized softback book. No rulebook, no army books. Printed material is the lowest profit margin with the least to gain, especially in this age of torrent piracy, so this has cost them virtually nothing.
All product has been recalled from GW stores to one central warehouse to be sold through mail order so they can sell down existing stocks without pouring capital into new production. Independent retailers have already given GW money for the product they have so they don’t really care what happens with it.
It seems like the initial buzz from new players is resulting in the odd regiment sale here and there, almost certainly more than the stagnant sales of the past few years.
The PDF’s are there to try to sate veteran players and move old product. Don’t expect them to be updated or expanded.
Going forward, if that indeed happens, it’s only going to be new factions (IP law enforceable) and models.
So, it looks like this is a win for GW and all it has cost them is what little good will from veteran WFB hobbyists that remained.
I believe that the rules will include points as a balancing system. Tomorrow we will know I guess.
“but are enraged by the overly simplistic and unbalanced rules set that Games Workshop have created for the new system”
Sorry, how many games of Age of Sigmar have you played? How unbalanced were these ga… oh, you’ve not played any?
Seriously people, have a gawk at the gorgeous mini’s, play a couple of games with an open mind and form an opinion yourself, instead of listening to sh*t stirring douchebags on the internet.
Hi I have played several games of it and it is literally the worst war game ever created.
I don’t think it’s the worst game ever, but it’s not fantasy, and appears to not be in depth enough to be better than Warmachine/Hordes.
It was kinda fun though. Not sure if it’s so fun with so many units being so similar though… you really lose some flavor as you begin comparing units like Greatswords and Swordmasters, then Black Orcs, Saurus, and Chaos Warriors
AoS; It would be sad if it is just a quick temporary rule set (pushed out quickly to compete with Kings of War), with 9e to follow in 10 months. (would make GW look desperate and money grabby if so) I hope not. I really think Fantasy needed a complete skirmish game (like Mordheim) “included in the MRB,” to get new players interested as they slowly built up their armies. AoS may be just that, but separate from the MRB (like Mordheim was), then GW will not look as bad when 9e drops?
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Additionally, AoS will not get off the ground without Veteran support. GW retail stores will be the only place pushing AoS (like Hobbit; see how well that worked out, seeing as there were a lot of Veteran LotR players GW ostracized) as the majority of FLGS just ride the GW 40k horse, if they ride a GW horse at all.
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As for KoW; Great to see Mantics two year plan finishing strong right next to GW AoS.
Here in the US, Mantic just needs to support FLGS, tournaments, and Cons, and it will succeed. Now make solid skirmish rules Mantic! (Like Mordheim)
Most important and relevant info from this: Rawdogger was a Ska kid. Knew I liked you for a reason.
It’ll definitely be interesting to see what happens. If it is straightforward enough, it could be a legit stepping stone into the hobby for the young and uninitiated. I’m sure the plan is to start with the skirmish version,then release a full scale in a few months/year.
The question will be is it interesinteresting for the game to keep itself alive long enough till it gets there. I’m sure most people are doing what I am: let other suckers beta test it first before getting involved. If GW is smart, they’ll have planned for this incrediblincredibly likely scenario and just eat the cost for a few years. On the other hand…..it’s GW, rational business decisions aren’t their MO.
Age of SMEGMAr…community trolled hard again….coming to 40k soon- no points.
Really GW what your frigging problem? Is the fact your own by bankers who can’t see anything beyond their profit margin or you abysmal leadership. You have thrown a loyal fan base under the bus and expect them to grin and take it. To hell with you GW.
I feel screwed over! end times was only fully avalibe a month or so ago!!! I haven’t had the funds to buy everything yet and you’ve discontinued it!!! WTF I’ve spent £200 in the last 6 months on end times the paint isn’t even dry on the new figurs and they axed it! been a loyal customer for 6 years, my whole family of 3. wish i could spit on the money grabbing @#*%££££££!!!!!!!!
It is a spit in the face of community! They think that teenagers will buy their overpriced models???? They only came to the game cause we, old grudges, take them along!!!!
RIDICULOUS!!!!
OFFENSIVE!!!!
Bye bye GW, I felt it coming but I never thought it will be THAT bad.
Owner of 3000+ models.
I am glad I saw this information. Over the past month I have been researching a miniatures game to get into. I am mostly a board gamer, who has also played some role-playing games, and wanted to get into a system where I can have an activity for myself when no one is available to play (i.e. assembling and painting miniatures) as well as having a fun game.
I liked the look of warhammer fantasy much more than 40k. I am not sure how this might affect my decision about what game to play.
I remember back when I played Decipher’s Star Wars CCG. When they lost the license I was very angry, and mad that my cards would not be useful anymore. While I am still disappointed they could not continue making new cards, it actually because cheaper to get some of the cards in the future (and for Star Trek CCG the drop in price was much larger) and so it turned out to be decent, and I still play from time to time. If this makes cheap models easily available on e-bay that might be cool, as long as I still have someone to play against.
I am more interesting in skirmish than moving models around as a big unit, so maybe I would like Sigmar, but the rules do seem a bit simplistic. I don’t understand why they couldn’t keep Fantasy around but just do less with it.
My biggest scare of getting into a game that is currently production is having it discontinued after only being in the game for a year (or a few months) so hearing this also scares me away from other GW games. I had been more afraid of other games, like Malifaux, because they didn’t have the history so I thought it was riskier, but now I see that even getting into a big, well supported game is risky. With that risk now part of other GW games, I don’t know that I would want to buy from a company that I have other issues with (their stance on IP protection, their prices, and general business model). So overall, this has turned me off from GW games, unless I can get these cheap on a secondary market.
There is some game coming out this month that is a mordheim reboot with these really cool looking minis reecius linked to it it had like a glacier or something on the front of it. I don’t recall the name but I was going to look for that at Gencon and give that a shot to fill my fantasy gaming needs.
Built up a huge collection of painted Orcs, Dark Elfs and High Elfs (probably around 30,000 points total) plus bought all the figs to do a Drawf army which was going to be a retirement project for me. So I will never get to deploy a fraction of these armies again unless I play a old edition of WHFB plus their dollar value just got went in the toilet! The reduction in their value alone has made me totally anti-GW. My local group which included several people who were more into collecting than buying stopped buying any WHFB models months ago because we were not sure what the Age Of Sigmar would bring. None of us are going to play the new game. Also at this point we are not buying any more 40k models even though we play on a weekly basis. Why invest more money into a game ran by a company that has a track record of selling games and then not supporting them? I have probably 10,000 points of painted Salamanders and I am done – not spending any more money.
I have gone back to playing historicals. At least if a rules set changes and I don’t like the change I can take my Tiger tank or Romans and play a different set a rules, at worst I might have to rebase some figs (having said that my Romans were based for WRG 7th ed and that basing has worked for DBA, DBM, FOG and now Art of War!).
Meanwhile my group will play an occasional game of WHFB 8th ed or maybe SAGA modified for Fantasy instead of Age Of Sigmar.
Bingo. Lots of WFB players were in it for collecting. Going to plastic hacked me right off, and now sure… the plastic is even more worthless since they aren’t even selling the RULES anymore apparently? On their website? Seriously?
Maybe it’s a ruse to drum up demand, I dunno, but it seems pretty ridiculous.
The timing seems really odd. Total War Warhammer is coming out soon, which very well could bring a rush of new WFB fans… Only to find out that the game no longer exists?
Should Warhammer be forgotten like the games of youth? It probably will be but it shouldn’t be. It was a game for kids and adults both. It was a game world that was old and deep and that grew deeper. Some adults might consider the game odd or immature but these same adults were willing to suspend that disbelief when they swarmed in throngs to the first Lord of the Rings movie. Everyone remember how popular that was with all ages…..it was a hugely popular. It is always good to be young at heart. Well the Warhammer world was a product of decades of creativity not unlike the Lord of the Rings or the Ring Worlds. Things like this enrich the world. It is one of the gems that should have been preserved. I always expected the Warhammer game be to around just like a chess game……endlessly available.
As for Games Workshop’s company mindset, I think most often a person sitting and writing creatively like Tolkien in his study is incompatable with stockholders natural demand for profit. Real creativity in fantasy iprobably belongs in private companies to best grow unimpeded and survive.
So here’s my ‘POV’ view of Warhammer AGE OF SIGMAR: There are about 5 game stores that sell miniatures games in a 50 mile area from where I live. They have collectively sold less than 50 copies of the new AGE OF SIGMAR starter set in total. This is after over a month of the new systems’ release.
The scariest comments I have heard from all five stores is that AGE OF SIGMAR is going to follow the path of 4th edition Dungeons & Dragons (Where almost 0 players use the new edition and continue with 3.5 edition, until the company comes out with a ‘good’ rule system)
Anyhow, my name is Dan and i’ve played Warhammer Fantasy since 4th edition. I live in the LA County of southern California.
Hardcore RPG player, new to any kind of wargames. Big fan of Mantic Games, but KoW just looks to me like a wannabe WFB to pull me in.
But I think sometimes you just need to follow your feelings… and AoS was there at the right moment.
Bought it last Friday. Painting now. Models are amazing, system seems easy enough. I will give it a try. I will let you know in one month or so.
I could feel this coming about 5 years ago when I left off playing Fantasy. WFB attracts a discerning wargamer. It was a much more complex set of rules. I tried to like 40k, but never could. I liked ancients and WFB. I cannot believe they are completely discontinuing the entire line, and more, I can’t believe they are releasing the rules for AoS in PDF but not all the sets of WFB for those of us who they KNOW will continue playing it along with Mordheim and the rest.
Idiocy.
They are in the business of selling models and yet refused to sell people the models they ASKED for. They are in the gaming business but refused to sell people the GAME they asked for. It really is just mind numbing why they would not simply release a STABLE set of core rules, core armies, and then release new models with special rules and let people hash out how to incorporate them into games and tournaments.
Well…. whatevs. There’s other companies out there willing to sell people models that will base up for WFB if the goofballs at Games Workshop can’t figure it out.
I might actually take the game up again now that I know I won’t be on the hook for another army book every 2-3 months.
Well this just pisses me off. step away from the hobby for a while and my game is gone? fuck….I like it all fantasy and 40 k…. the raising prices is really what made me take a step back. but ive got 10…almost 20 g tied up in a game that I’ll never be able to use again? Fuck you GW!
I only got into Warhammer a few mpnths ago. Love the lore the art and models. I admit im more of s hobbiest that loves collecting building and painting models. Im out of sorts here because i focused on AoS gor these reasons: 40k has been around so long it seemed too much to get into. 2.im older and was instantly attracted to the ’boutiqueish’ look and style as opposed to what i find corny…Transformer looking models. That being said i dont like transformers ninja turtles or funko pops and japanamation..mainly because i cant stand the crap that came out when i was already grown.im a 70’s child.it sll looks like like goofy animated shit.