Show Notes
4-17-2015
Intro
- Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, and YouTube! Join our Forums, too! If you would like to be a guest on the show, email Reece at Contact@FrontlineGaming.org
- We sell tabletop games and supplies at 20% off! Hit us up for your next gaming order at Orders@FrontlineGaming.org or visit our webstore at FrontlineGaming.org.
News
- Eldar Pre-Order Special is a go! Make sure to get hose orders in by emailing: Orders@FrontlineGaming.org
- Get your Wargames Con tickets! We’re preparing for a really fun weekend of gaming down in Austin.
- The new Star Wars trailer is amazing, so excited to see this!
- Clockwork Goblin minis show off a very cool conversion using their models.
- Fantasy Flight reveal the next 4 ships for X-Wing! They look pretty cool. We do carry X-Wing product at a discount, so check out the web store to get yours! However, it is hard to get our hands on the models at times.
- Forge World shows off some “Pride of the Legion” sets for 40k to help you get started!
- Puppets War unveils a set of new SciFi infantry models: Strike Force 5.
- Infinity has a preview sketch of a new mini: the Acquila Guard.
- Kromlech posts some pics of awesome new little Goblin Super Heroes!
Upcoming ITC Events
- We will be reacting to the Eldar release in the ITC, for now, everyone please just be cool and hang tight for a few days.
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- Kings of the North, Moor Club Adventure House, UK, April 17-19, 2015
- Road to the Open, Endgame, Oakland, CA, April 19, 2015
- Just A Games Con ITC Event, Elks Lodge, Corvallis, OR, April 19th, 2015
- Gamer’s Paradise Spring GT, Prairieville, LA, April 19, 2015
- Huzzah Hobbies April ITC GT, Ashburn, VA, April 25, 2015
- 2015 Warhammer 40k Championship Circuit, maCnarB Gaming. Gautier, MS, April 25, 2015
- Wolf Brothers Battle Born Skirmish ITC Event, Heroes Games and Hobbies, Sparks, NV, April 25, 2015
- Broadside Bash at Kingdom Con, Crown Plaza Hotel, San Diego, CA, April 25th-26th, 2015
Rumors: The Rumor Section is gathered from the web and is not in any way information we receive from any manufacturer nor is it necessarily accurate. This section of the podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.
- Hints that a 30K release is coming out soon from GW!
- – Early Heresy mark armor Astartes x20– Cataphractii Terminators x5– Contemptor Dreadnought x1– Praetor x1
- Tons of Eldar rumors. The D is all over the place?!
- A Warlord Titan coming from Forge World? Holy smokes! They’re hinting at it in the next 30k Book!
Rant Session
Tactics Corner
- New Skitarii look cool!
Rules Lawyer
Completed Commissions/Hobby Progress
List Review
I know its early to know what’s what with the Skitarii, but I’ve put together a list that is all the models I’ve bought so far plus the dunecrawlers I’ll be buying this weekend.
My big question is whether the single skyfire Dunecrawler will be better than some Las Ironstriders.
In terms of future allies I am thinking of dropping the Infiltrators and adding a Callidus or Culexus or putting in an AM contingent of Yarrick, BBQ Vets in BBQ Chimera, Vendetta, 2 Wyverns and dropping the one crawler and some other stuff.
Any thoughts would be helpful.
10x Rangers, omnispex, 3x Arc Rifle – 175
10x Vanguard, omni, 2x Plasma Caviler, Conv. Field, Pwr Swd, Rad Pistol (warlord) – 200
10x Vanguard, omni, 2x Plas Caviler, Refractor, Phos Pistol, Arc Maul – 200
5x Vanguard, omni, 2x Arc Rifle, Arc Pistol
5x Sicarian Infiltrators – 185
10x Sicarian Rust Stalkers (Razors/Chordclaws/Mindscramble), conv.field, Omniscient Mask- 340
4x Sydonian Dragoons – 180
3x Dunecrawlers, 2x Nuetron Laser, 1x phosphor blaster, cognis stubber – 340
1x Dunecrawler, Icarus Array – 125
1850
Not sure what the ultimate solution would be in regard to the Big D. But maybe one unit of ranged D per army… which allows Imperial players to get their D-slappers in their too. Perhaps a WWP/Wraithguard ban as well. Its not like the WG are indestructible… so putting them in the new Wave Serpents as their only delivery system gives everyone a chance to react and deal with it tactically.
Although the non scattering 3 falcon unit might prove a pretty awesome delivery system too.
Yeah no scatter from the rumors right?
Yup.
Wraithguard cant fit in falcons cause they are bulky :/
The jetbike is ridiculous, but the ranged D while strong and definitely overpowered do present an interesting potential change to the meta.
Since the introduction of very powerful monstrous creatures and imperial knights they have dominated the table top. With eldar shitting out D shooting everywhere they can just straight up kill these huge models which should stop the Imperial knights allied with every army were currently seeing. Of course now you’ll see wraith knights allied in every army but at least they aren’t battle brothers with half the codexes.
I welcome our new eldar overlords and will be mildly entertained if there is a tournament in the future that is all eldar bikes against eldar bikes with D weapon support.
I agree. I think what we’re seeing here in the Eldar codex are the rules designers making an argument for the Destroyer rule to be an integral part of the game, in the same way other powerful special rules like Ignores Cover, Fearless, And They Shall Know No Fear, etc… are. I think we’ll see more and more Destroyer weapons in future releases – it was in the Necron codex, the Ork codex, it’s in the main rulebook (Vortex of Doom – almost every psychic army has access to it), and every Knight has one. Why not spread around the love to our favorite xenos which are fluff-wise the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy? In a way, it balances out the force, and I’d be glad to see less Adamantium Lances as a result
Back in second edition, the wraith cannon was arguably more powerful: on a 1-3 – the target is destroyed no matter what – on a 4-6, it was moved 2D6 in a random direction. I know we can’t compare to 2nd edition – but it seems the designers are taking a lot of cues from that old gem.
Remember, a webway portal wraithguard unit can only come in on turn two at best – it will cost at least 300 points bare – more with transport and upgrades – realistically around the 450 mark. There are so many viable counters – negative reserves manipulation, bubble wrapping important super-heavies, interceptor, etc… that a smart player will be able to mitigate it. I’ll use the example you guys used in the podcast – of killing the bane blade in one salvo – the same effect can be achieved with a unit of drop-pod stern guard loaded with combi-meltas for less points, and is guranteed to arrive on turn one.
The Wraithknight? Well you still have to roll a six on the D chart to one shot a baneblade, followed by a 3+. Not highly likely with only two shots a turn.
While the Scatter Jetbikes are pretty powerful, the WIndrider formation hands out shred to all jetbike shuriken weaponry once per game – I think we’ll be seeing more shuriken cannons for that reason. I’m excited to see how the rest of the codex pans out – but already it looks like there will be many viable builds, especially that a lot of the aspect warriors seem to have been buffed. Yay Striking Scorpions! (first models I ever bought).
It was Fox Force 5. Uma Thurmans charactor was in the pilot.
Nice trivia!
Make D str10 with a 6, it does d3 hullpoints/wounds. Still ignores FNP, Reanimation protacols. Make it a Super good rending. Now dont change the Melee.
“…it was in the Necron codex, the Ork codex,…”
Where was the double shot, ranged D in the ork codex for only 300 pts? I must have missed it.
“…it was in the Necron codex, the Ork codex,…”
The only D weapon available to orks from their codex is the stompa’s sword (melee). He costs 770 points minimum. 1 per force.
Yeah that’s a brilliant comparison to the D-Mess in the 7e eldar book lol 😀
There has to be a bet going on on how op they could make the codex.
I made no comparison, I merely stated that it is part of the game, and there are various instances of it. I think there will be more D as time goes on (hoping for a vortex grenade in the upcoming space marine book hohoho). Get used to it and deal with it like a smart player or keep whining like a… or agree as a community to nerf it somewhat after being patient and seeing how it actually plays out once this codex is released.
God damn Swarmlord is 285 pts.
Lol, right?! What in the blazes justifies the WK at only +10pts, lol?
……the same who made wraiths
I don’t really object to anything in the new Eldar codex. I mainly object to the points cost on those things.
Wraith Knights should be like 425 points (Same range as other LOW). Wraith Guard – 75 Points per man w/ D-Scythe. Scatter laser upgrade to jetbikes – 25 points. SC upgrade = 20 points.
Balancing them through army comp or FAQ is going to be incredibly challenging. My suggestion is that you make all ranged D -1 on the D table, and limit Jetbike special weapon upgrades to 1 per unit, and if you are concerned about nerfing a specific unit, look at how you dealt with Tyrannocytes.
We’re considering all options and agree with the points you make. It is a difficult position to be in. I agree that the 6 result on the D table is what is concerning, the rest of it is pretty dang powerful, but, manageable.
You’re right though about Jetbikes, I am actually more concerned about that than the rest of it! Haha, we’ll see how that pans out.
From what I’ve seen of eldar out of some actual codex pics, the rumors are true.
I’m hoping you guys put a lid on the heavy weapons for the bikes, tell the wraithguard to use their old 6e weapon profiles for the D weapons, and just flat out tell wraithknights that they cost 100 more points for the melee version, and not allow the ranged D version.
Also I’d like to point out that I’m grateful that you guys are willing to step up to the “hated” position of authority in the game that GW has left vacant, and actually be willing to do some necessary duct taping and cutting to make the game still be a game.
Thanks, and yeah, it is not a pleasant position to be in, honestly, but someone has to do it of the community as a whole will suffer.
Reece, if you fix eldar in a reasonable and sensible way, and not break them or go too overboard with doing it to other armies, I will buy all of Frontline gaming a round on mee next time you are in town.
Sounds like a plan!
There is nothing wrong with the D presented in this book. The problem before was always the fact that D was a blast and as such could remove multiple guys if a 6 was rolled. Now each one has to hit with regular bs so on 3s then after that have to roll a 6 to even potentially remove one model maybe. It is no different compared to the distort rule last addition that on a 6 it removed a model. Only difference is its better against vehicles. So is it stronger? Yes is it broken? No because you can only remove a model which is no different than a guy with melt a shooting at a vehicle. Better chances to kill with melta.
I agree with you to a point, what I think you are not considering is groups of D weapons and high value models. For example, if someone has a Leman Russ, or Barbed Heirodule, etc. in cover, gets hit by a unit of WG with D slappers, the odds of rolling one six are actually quite high. Considering you can put a unit of WG almost anywhere on the table without scattering (WWP) makes for a really powerful tool. Or, just a WK taking pot shots at high value targets, you will roll some 6’s and remove models. Say an Eldar player has a hot turn, fires his WK at two high value targets and gets a 6 on both models? In some cases that can effectively end the game on the first turn. I think that is what folks are concerned about, and I have to agree that it is a totally valid concern. Meltas cannot do that.
I say, only d melee for wk
It’s the same as getting lucky turn with lascannons or meltas. We are playing a dice game and you can never plan for the mathematicaly unlikely. A unit of wraith guard you are describing would be well over 300 plus points. 12 inch range after deep strike in turn 2. So effectively destroy one unit and then die. I don’t see any difference with it really except versus knights or other super heavies. It’s gonna kill something but then die as wraith guard are still only one wound 3+ armor. And really one wraithknight is not all that scarry. I would be more worried at the 3 wraithnight plus ad lace game with summoning eldar far seer I have played against.
>It’s the same as getting lucky turn with lascannons or meltas
Except that you don’t have to get lucky. A single Str D gun is more than three times as effective as a Lascannon against most targets (not to mention its ability to just roll a six and make you die.)
Just because there are multiple different possible outcomes of an event does not make all outcomes equally likely. A Lascannon CAN kill a Land Raider in one shot, but it’s extremely unlikely- a Wraithcannon, on the other hand, has a pretty reasonable shot at it (and even if it fails is all but guaranteed to strip off a large chunk of HP, whereas the Lascannon probably does nothing.)
>The problem before was always the fact that D was a blast and as such could remove multiple guys if a 6 was rolled.
No, it couldn’t. For god’s sake, people, read the rules before you you play- the Destroyer table just replaces the to-wound/penetration roll. You don’t roll once for a blast to wound every model in a squad and you don’t roll once for a Destroyer weapon to kill every guy.
Thanks for the list review. Playing my first game with them tomorrow, so we’ll see. I agree about the toys…I will drop some gear, it is just so different, I was dazzled by all the sparkle. I think this list has the added benefit of not getting any fnp against the new eldar jet bikes so there will be the added bonus of really quick games against eldar. I’ll enjoy pulling all the 2 wound models of the table turn 1. Haha.
Lol, i feel you on the Str6 spam, that’s the reson you never see Astra Militarum Heavy Weapons Squads, any more.
One decent thing that the Eldar distort to D change brings though, is maybe a way to change Ranged D for tourneys to allow some more of it in?
You could maybe make all ranged D have that rule that the D-Scythes have (-1 to the D table) So that they could never get a 6. It’d be worse than melee D but its strength would be that it is ranged.
Just a suggestion, I have no idea how it would impact the tourney scene really. Ranged D Blasts would probably still be a bit too OP, not sure.
Yeah, we’re thinking of proposing something like that. It’s really only the 6 that is so much of an issue.
Will you be fixing the double name entries in the ITC results? There’s tons of them.
Yeah, working on that, now.
Mechanicum Transport from FW.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/medium/Triaros1.jpg
Yeah, I love that model! But, it is not currently 40k legal =(
please play a bunch of bat reps, with a mixture of lists, scout shame, flyer heavy, drop spam. Maybe swap the player who is playing the eldar? 😛
book reading is… quite different to actual play as we all know. A lot of people Jerk the knee quite heavily, not saying it doesn’t look scary, but initial thoughts on codex’s are usually pretty far off.
i.e Wraithknights and serpents were mainly seen as terrible for the first couple of months after the release. necron flyer spam was impossible to beat etc etc
It’s also funny that the new elder codex will just stop people from taking more than one super heavy lord of war, as the only way to defend them is with bubble wrap vs deep striking wraith guard. Also Eldar are just the best at killing eldar, blade storm vs wraith units for instance?;).
Hey, I was saying quite loudly right after the last book dropped that Serpents and Wraithknights were amazing! haha
I know you were:), but you can remember the outcry from almost everyone else;P
New Eldar being the best counter to new eldar isn’t going to be great for the meta. :/
Hopefully something will step up as an out-of-codex counter. Hopefully Chaos Space Marines 😛
So funny thought – Maybe Matt Ward wasn’t that bad? I’m looking at you internet! (that’s a joke, sorta)
I have some thoughts, not really on balancing the codex but on something that might help with the pole. Maybe you want to stream a few games with the new D-ified Codex, and then some balancing, it might be nice to see some of it in actual play, with more tournament minded folks.
The volume on this episode if it’s indeed episode 333 is very low…I couldn’t hear it in my car with the volume turned up to a decent level…..just a heads up
Thanks for the critique, how about #334, was that better?