InControl answers the challenge and calls Reecius out! Nids on Orks, can the new Nids beat the commonly regarded weakest army in 6th ed 40K? As always check out the Tactics Corner for more videos!
InControl answers the challenge and calls Reecius out! Nids on Orks, can the new Nids beat the commonly regarded weakest army in 6th ed 40K? As always check out the Tactics Corner for more videos!
YEAHHHH Go Orks! Pity about the nids, looks like a rough game haha
Orks is da best! =P
Orks is da best!
Da meanest and da stompiest! I love playing Orks.
Sweet, worst codex ever!!!!
It sadly appears that way, but we haven’t given up yet!
Great batrep guys. Just gotta keep plugging away with them Nids!
We shall soldier on!
The Tervigon is no longer a character.. heh..
We missed that….boo! But thanks for pointing that out.
fyi tervigons can’t challenge since they are no longer characters.
We missed that, thanks!
I believe im going to allow Tyranids to have access to book powers in my games
That would be very sporting of you.
Give him at least a sporting chance lol
I want to see a video about that scenery factory you have going in the background. Looked interesting.
We are seriously Frontline Manufacturing right now! Terrain is being pumped out non-stop!
What about putting a venomthrope in a bunker with biovores on top?
That could definitely work. Still Turkey bait, though.
I’m thinking about a bastion with a venomthrope , prime + crown, and 3 biovores on top.
Deployed center right out of the deployment zone maybe to provide an anchor to the center of the army for the first 3 turns.
might try that this weekend.
Let us know how it goes!
The firestorm Redoubt is even better. 230 points for 4 TL lascannons with skyfire and interceptor.
Not sure those models would actually fit? But you could put them inside, I think?
Now that was a good battle report! It was much more enjoyable then the last one cause it was just filled with silly complaining. If you had started out with a video like this one, I think you would have been much more credible in what you were saying. Well done!
As for the Nids, it does seem pretty clear which units are going to be used compared to which will not be used, but I am still excited to see them being played. perhaps this will be an era of the massive Tyranid swarm type lists?
Glad you liked this one more! The last one we were super tired and felt really low about how bad the dex is =(
Frankie thinks the swarm will be the best build, too. I think they won’t be very killy, though. I am leaning towards massed big bugs.
Swarm sounds good unless you go up against pulse bomb, or venom spam or guardian brick or green tide or imperial guard blastarama lol
Or Tac Marine Spam, lol!
some lessons from this battle rep – thanks for doing this – the more battles we can see the more we learn about the new nids!
so what I gathered from this was:
swarmlord is too slow, and without tyrant guard is going to die just as easily as any walking tyrant. very expensive for what he is, which in this game was basically way too many points to do nothing.
flyrants are good… two is better… see swarmlord above – if he would have been a flyrant = different game right there.
mawlocs are not good. WAY better choices in the heavy slot… like any of the other choices. in this match up vs. orks, three more biovores instead maybe?
venomthropes as single model units? oh no… no…no…no… too easy to kill for first blood if there’s any LOS to them, and they’re too crucial for the first two turns to cover your swarm use three if possible… minimum 2 if you can hide them.
dakkafexes would have also been a very, very solid choice, probably one of the strongest choices in the codex next to flyrants.
the crone is pretty solid I think, but needed to be in venomthrope range turn one (see above) then vector strike the battlewagons turn two… side armor + no cover means dead battlewagon
vs. orks those lootas need to die asap…
I would really like to see this same scenario replayed with:
2x flyrants
zoans
hive guard
3 venomthropes
termagants
tervigon
crone
dakkafexes
biovores
but I guess that’s asking alot…lol….
I have all of those models, actually. I am thinking of trying the following:
Flyrant
Flyrant
Tervs x 15: Devourers x 10
Tervs x 15: Devourers x 10
Hormagants x 20
Venomes x 2
Zoeys x 2
Gargs x 15
Gargs x 15
Crone
Biovores x 3
T-Fex
Exocrine
I think that gives you some hitting power and bodies to jam people up. Big problem though is, as always, synapse. A smart player targets the two Zoeys and it’s lights out. Synapse is such an immense crutch right now. Tervigons suck now, the Prime is overcosted, Walking Hive Tyrants are so easy to kill. I am wondering what the hell to do.
They need BRB powers back and to be able to ally with themselves. That is the key, I think.
Warriors seem like the most cost effective tools for synapse coverage the trick is keeping them alive. toops and fairly resilient.
Yeah, I agree. They are so damn squishy.
Hiding them out of LOS works just fine. If they’re in the backfield you can leave a barbed strangler poking out and the rest can completely hide. If anything gets close, toxin sacks and one bonesword/scytal warrior make for a cost effective counter attack.
Worked like a charm for me against Adam yesterday evening, they were able to pile out of some ruins and take out a plague marine squad without much trouble.
I think the mixed loadouts are a real hidden blessing of the book.
You have to run 30 Gants each to run the Tervigon as a troop. 30 Gants got you three Tervigons in the last edition. Sigh…
Yeah, the Tervigon got Nerfed to high, holy hell =(
two zoans are just not enough synapse… that’s a set up to get frustrated by I think unless you’re not pushing forward with your flyrants… a couple min-sized warriors running behind and flank (to get shrouded) to the venomthropes would likely be necessary if you’re not running a tervigon… need that synapse coverage!
Yeah, you are right. But damn, I am so hesitant to take the craptastic Warriors! They suck balls! Maybe I will have to try it. Not many other options, lol!
Well, a couple things to think about…
A Flyrant is great and all, but extremely squishy and prone to crashing from autoguns.
A Tyranid Prime in a brood of 30 termagants is probably the toughest to kill synapse you can get. Outflank them with Hive Commander and give him maw-jaws and a sword/whip, maybe flesh hooks, as soon as he makes it into a fight, that whole brood is now going to re-roll 1’s to hit and wound. Give 10-15 of them devourers and it’s really something they’ll have to do something about.
Solo zoans are also not a horrible option if you think you can hide them out of LOS, it also means you get more rolls on the nid powers. Worst case scenario, you have a small 50 point model to hide with an 18″ synapse range (with dominion) and if you get lucky, he can dish out some FNP as well.
Tyranid warriors in the backfield, you only need to keep 1 alive. So if you take a cheap unit with a strangler/venom cannon, keep at least one out of LOS entirely and you wont have to worry about losing the unit to shooting, even with Str 8.
While Tervigons did get kicked in the brood sac, they are still a T6 W6 3+ scoring model who produces at least 1 more scoring unit. Synaptic backlash is a pain, but since the shots are distributed as shooting, it can only kill the models within 12″, so if only 2-3 per brood are in that range, you wont lose a ton. If you need him/her for backfield support, you can also throw on the Miasma Cannon, though that is a little pricy.
I really think you need to figure out if you’re going to be a back/mid or mid/deep field army and pick synapse appropriately.
@Adam: Couple of questions–do the 30 termagants protect the prime from Precision Shots? If not, I may start dropping 10 Rangers into my loldar lists. How much utility will an out-of-los zoan provide an army that has to move forward in order to win? Will ‘nid players have to conga-line their gants in order to get buffs? If so, how will that (potentially) function vis a vis barrage weapons? As for keeping a warrior out of LoS in the backfield, blast weapons can allocate wounds to models that are out of line of sight, so long as the original target was in los, etc. etc.
@DCannon4Life – Termagants just give normal Look Out Sir like normal.
An out of LOS Zoanthrope is only 50 points, figure that a +6″ radius to synapse on any other monster is 40, spending 50 to have a hidden backfield synapse isn’t that bad of an investment. If you’re lucky, you’ll also get a spell worth casting, if not, you’ll get dominion.
Nice batrep although I’m getting more and more sad as I watch Nidz lose. Id certainly be down for the challenge but the trip and time arent on my side. Hopefully tho there will be a nice Nid win soon in these batreps
We have another one inbound today with me on the bugs vs. Space Marines. Hopefully I can pull it off! This is getting depressing.
Hey Reecius, just wanted to say a) your voice reminds me of Badger from Breaking Bad who is one of my favourite characters from that show so props there, and b) I’ve been playing Tyranids since Bill Clinton was still President (though I’m from the UK) and this is the worst book they’ve ever had by a country mile. I know you’ve been getting some stick from regular Tyranid players for the things you’ve been saying about it, and I just wanted to let you know that there is at least one die-hard Tyranid player out there who agrees with you 100%- it is, for the most part, a big pile of crap.
The thing that bugs me most is people who say “oh you’re just steamed because you didn’t get a Tau/Eldar level of broken bullshit”, when in fact I’m upset because the codex doesn’t really do what it sets out to do very well, and it doesn’t really encapsulate Tyranids very well. The fact that it continues the trend from the last oneof being at its absolute best a low-mid tier book is really just the hydrochloric acid enema to finish off the chainsaw proctology exam that is the codex in general. So many baffling decisions, so many missed opportunities, so many instances where they made things which sucked better and then obviously went ‘woops, can’t make them too good’ so hit them with another nerf to “balance” them, because they don’t seem to understand that those units just needed to get better.
Kudos for the batrep anyway, was fun to watch, and you’ve just earned yourself a new follower.
Hey Chuckles, thanks! And yeah, it feels that the only people giving me shit right now are not Nid players. All of the dedicated Nid players I have talked to agree this book is a pile of shit. I am actually mad that GW gives us this, charges us a premium price and then expects us to take it. Where is there sense of pride in what they do? I would be ashamed to put this out as a pro game designer, it’s shameful.
Rant aside, I too am an old school Bug player, I still have some peanut headed Warriors from second ed! We will continue to look for the good combos, but like you said, hahaha, an acid enema is what this feels like. So many shit units stayed shit or even got worse! I do not get it.
Oh, and yes, I do sound like Badger, hahaha, I get that a lot.
I’m completely with you dude. I play Magic: the Gathering as well (mostly pretty casually though I do attend the occasional draft tournament as I like that format the best) and the difference in the level of attention to game balance between the two is pretty stark. When people complain it’s not possible to balance a game as complex as 40K I always point them to MtG, as the level of complexity involved in that makes 40K pale in comparison, many more moving parts and a much higher rate of turnover, yet a much lower level of “broken” stuff released. Obviously the two aren’t entirely comparable but it’s still pretty damning.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t spent a penny on this release and I’ve no intention to do so. I’m going to give things some time to settle down and then send head office a letter explaining just why I’m so disappointed and why I won’t be spending any money on their insulting, lazy and incompetent work.
Ahh the old plastic warriors, takes me back. I’ve still got my old 2nd Ed codex and sometimes I dip back into it and cry over what we’ve lost. Screamer Killers with 10 Wounds and WS and Initiative 6, the old Hive Tyrant, weapons: “Claws, jaws and a bad attitude”, and biomorphs like Warp Field. Great days.
Yeah, I agree 100%. Saying “we’re just a model company” is bullshit and a cop-out. They make a game to sell the models, that game should be the best game they can make. Warmahordes, which is much like MtG with complex unit interactions, has crazy balance. At the most competitive Warmahordes tournament, all of the major factions were in the top 10! Wow. That is crazy, in 40K that NEVER happens.
I think 6th edition flirts with greatness, it just needs some minor tweaks to make it great.
Hey Chuckles. Same Chuckles from The Tyranid Hive? Always good stuff in your posts over there if so. Welcome to FLGs home for great 40k 🙂
Aye, tis me. I’m also the same Chuckles who used to moderate 40KOnline back before the lunatics took over the asylum, don’t know if you ever frequented that particular forum.
I’ve been impressed by what I’ve seen so far, cheers for the welcome!
You are on the right track with the Frankie style minimal scoring but I think you guys are selling this book short buy not running 3 crones/2-3 exocines. This book brings back nidzilla. Run 9 monsters, 5 of them flying, minimal scoring (maybe a tervigon but whatever) venomthropes, and push forward.
DA FUQ??? THOSE GLASSES!!!!!!
I need some
Haha, I was waiting for someone to notice! Frontline Gaming Stunna Shades!
Hey, great battle report guys! I think everyone at GW that is in any way involved with 40K should be forced to watch this on repeat for an hour or two.
Also, it kinda seems like the Tyranid list should have a bit more redundancy because as it stands it’s “one of this” “one of that” “one of this” and it’s way too easy to take out a certain element of the army. Just a thought.
Glad you liked it! And yeah, it is pretty rough. Solving the Synapse question is the key to making Nids at least viable.
I like that list you wrote in the comments reece. 2 zoanthropes as backfield synapse is a bigger risk than what I do with few troop choices imo though 🙂
I agree. A good player kills them and forces you to send the Flyrants back to save your army =(
What a gorgeous Ork army? Makes me excited about perhaps making my own when the new dex comes out.
Is there anywhere I could go to see closer pics of those Orks?
We don’t have any closer pics but I can try and snap some in the next game, for sure. It is a beautiful army, painted by one of painters, Pascal.
You guys are really underestimating all the capabilities of their powers tbh, paroxism is super handy, onslaught can be used for a lot of different things (Dakkaflyrant, Tfex w/ the flamer, etc), catalyst is amazing, the horror really isn’t THAT bad (it’s only useless against loyalist marines and fearless). Also while I love InControl that wasn’t a very well played game tactically (Tfex shouldn’t of got that close among a few other things). Unfortunately i’m in Baltimore, as I would love to come there and get some free stuff from you ;-), anyways at least this was a good batrep, much more the quality I expect from you guys. That last one was just atrocious.
That last one WAS atrocious, haha, we were so bummed out and then just started goofing off. The second game in that first bat rep was purely for laughs.
Nid Powers ARE good but also not reliable. You can’t build lists around any of them except for Dominion and Horror if you take Broodlords.
How was Biomancy any more reliable though? Yea having Iron Arm was great but for every IA,Warp Speed, Endurance Flyrant you got there was a Smite, Hemorrhage, Life Leech one. Even pointing to your batrep before this which we all agreed was horrible, how would Biomancy have changed anything? You got seized on and nuked by Tauday before you even cast anything. All the IA in the world wouldn’t of changed that. Not to mention you can also throw cheap buffing units in a list that will split the targets up for your opponent to hit. 1 Zoey is 50 pts and gets a power to toss around (rerolling Warp Lance results makes it even more reliable). If they kill it O well you lost a 50pt Zoey, if they don’t that Zoey can become a huge problem.
While I do agree the potential Biomancy presents you with is higher, the floor doesn’t seem quite as low with the ‘Nid powers. My ONLY real issue with the codex is it seems a lot of the MC’s who deserved a 2+ save didn’t get it (Exocrine, Haruspex, etc). Though I gotta admit being able to field THAT many 2+ save, T6, regenerating MC’s might of been a little much. Regardless I really hope you guys keep trying with the book, I swear to you it’s better than you’re saying, people just have to start rethinking everything about how they play ‘Nids. Tactically it’s a whole different animal.
*Taudar lol
Now don’t be too hard on em nids… they are just having a Nid-life Crisis…. 😛
I’m going to try this list today with my buddy running some space marine (white scars)
2x Flyrants (2x TL BL Devourers)
2x Venomthropes
Troops:
Terivogn
30 gaunts
20 gaunts
Heavy support:
Fex brood- 3x Dakka fex
Fex brood- 2x crushing claw/Hvy venom cannon, 1x crushing/scything talons and spine banks.
that is 1850, the low amount of troops is very dangerous but 6 fexes marching up the field with the 2 dakka flyrants seems interesting too me. i’ll probably die a horrible death but hey i’ll give it a try.
Despite the ending, the game was actually kind of close. What hurt Geoff mainly IMO was that he just wasn’t familiar enough with your army. Also, he kind of played his army a little too spread out IMO. Without blasts weapons in your army…other than the burnas in battlewagons, who can’t fire if the wagons move more than 6″….I’d have played the bugs much closer with Swarmy, T-fex and Tervie all supporting each other. I’d like to see you charge into 3 TMC’s all able to support each other. In any case, better luck next time for Geoff.
As for me, I’m running a slightly different Tyranid list. Yes, it’s going to have 2 flyrants, but the rest of the army just may surprise people. I’ll bring it the next time I’m there.
the one really great thing in the mid dex is shadows of the warp and playing orcs… well it aint going to see much use:P. try playing vs… grey knights? footdar?blood angels:P maybe even demons?
just realised all the nid special rules make things worse, synapse makes bids bad and shadows make the opponents psykers bad;)
“TYRANIDS FOR LIFE”
Amen brother… amen!
*wipe away single tear*
Here’s what I tested against Adam last night:
Foot regeneration tyrant w/ hive commander, dual devourers + two guard. All with Adrenals + poison.
1 Flyrant, w/ dual devourers
2 venomthropes
1 zoanthrope
2 lictors
30 gaunts, w/ 15 devourers
10 gaunts
3 warriors, w toxin, barbed strangler, one lash whip & bonesword
1 tervigon
1 Mawloc
1 Exocrine
1 Biovore
1750pts
Adam took a bunch of plague marines, obliterators and blight drones. I was able to kill most of it, using the huge unit of gaunts, the foot tyrant and the exocrine to dominate table center. The warriors, 10 gaunts and biovore held and defended my home objective in a ruin. The tervigon outflanked and spawned objective stealing gaunts. The Mawloc ate a unit of oblits and stole an objective while the exocrine shot shit dead. The venomthropes handed out shrouded cover saves like candy. The lictors popped up and ate a predator and a unit of cultists, as there weren’t enough spare guns to deal with them in time.
It all basically worked as it should – I had a few hot dice, but it wasn’t an optimized list and I was playing a bunch of units to see how they worked out. Adam wasn’t playing a real “cheese dick army”, but there was a lot of firepower to walk into and the nids did just fine.
LOL…orks in a good player’s hands can win any battle…bottom of the heap? C’mon…
Yeah, that’s what we said.
If you want proof that they didn’t test the codex, compare 1 ripper base (13 points) to 3 termagants (12 points).
Also, the Mawloc is not going to be very useful if you play against an army that has Coteaz… which is pretty much every army now.
I just going to throw this out there and see what everyone thinks
The Tyranids FAQ on GW didnt get updated but they still have one and guess what it says about Tyranids psykers.
Tyranids psychers can swap to book powers.
Psychic Powers
Any model with psychic powers may use the psychic disciplines
found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of those in
Codex: Tyranids.If it does so, for each psychic power it has from
Codex: Tyranids (including those it has purchased), generate a
new power from either the Biomancy,Telekinesis or Telepathy
disciplines (in any combination) before armies are deployed.
You can’t cherry-pick the FAQ’s that you like. There are a lot of stuff in there that doesn’t make sense with the new codex. They all have to apply or none of them do.
In other words, that FAQ is obsolete.
Im just bring up the fact that its there and they didnt take it down. Make of it what you will
Something I think a lot of people overlook w/ Venomthropes is that even though the shroud is handed out only to models within 6″, shrouded is one of the rules that, if one model in the unit has it, the whole unit has it.
Reece, stop selling the warriors short. They are just as squishy as crisis suits and people still use those. . .
Sure…but aren’t crisis suits more killy at range and more mobile?
Don’t we prefer people shooting at warriors over better Tyranids?
Personally I’d much prefer the warriors to absorb fire than most other creatures, and being behind giants and shrouded with a Zoey they require more firepower than they deserve, right?
Guants*
Thanks Reecius & Jeff,
That was a much better look even if it didn’t end so well for the bugs. I do appreciate these bat reps as they are a great insight into how nids might play and what will be required to make a viable list.
Jeff something that I think you should try is a more focused list, for example if you are going to run flying MC’s I think you need to turn the volume to 11 with it and run at least four. If your going to run a carpet of 25mm bases make sure you’ve got well over 100 of them and also at least 3 synapse support units etc.
I don’t think it’s going to be a codex that rewards “balanced” builds, your going to have to pick a theme and go at it as hard as you can.
I think a nid army really does need synergy, keep it as one blob and it’s suprising how tough they are, the first game I lost as I used my old list that wasn’t synapse driven at all.
After changing things round I managed to table a marine and chaos player badly! 2 exocrines are horrible for your opponent, especially if they get to use the bs4, they were melting bikers and terminators like no ones business, and when 1 got attacked it did better than I thought in CC.
And warriors are great! As mentioned about equal to a crisis suit, less wpns but better cc, and fearless to boot, ppl used to say that they always get killed by S8 wpns but my opponents were too busy shooting the big bugs steaming towards them!
Also the mixed wpns on gaunts means you can kick out a staggering amount of shots… 45 shots from 15 devourers is a nice thing to roll! …even if the dice avalanche physically swept away the wood 😀
Overall I actually prefer this book, granted there are changes but it seems to pay off better if you combine the swarm and keep it as one huge lump.
Im tempted to try 2 haruspexes running alongside my 2 mobs of gaunts.. could worry my opponents enough that they ignore everything else! (And I love the model)
Hmm I do appear to have used far too many exclamation marks above… maybe the hive mind got to me 😉