A few folks out there think Nids are actually quite good…I do not see it. But, I want to be wrong, so put your money where your mouth is and answer the challenge!
I believe that talk is pretty cheap and that actions and experience are what matter. That is why we always play the new books and lists before passing judgement on them. Now, a handful of games with the Nids isn’t enough to pass judgement of course, but so far, it feels like this book is extremely weak.
However, I want to be wrong. I hope this is just a case of me not seeing the good stuff, yet. So, if you think you have it dialed in and that I am way off base: prove it! Call me out in a challenge match and so long as you can beat me on film, I will give you a box set of 40K product as a prize! You risk nothing.
But wait, that’s not all!
I will spice this up a bit to make it even easier. You can do the following:
- Borrow my Nids. That way if you need a model or even an entire army, you can use my stuff. Proxies and unpainted models to a minimum though, it looks bad on camera.
- You can pick the army I use. So long as I have access to the army, I’ll use it. Yup, you heard that right, you can choose the army I use! It doesn’t get much better than that.
- If you can beat me with our Taudar army, I will give you $100 cash of my own money. Yup, a Benji if you can beat me with Taudar.
- We will use a randomly determined BAO mission and terrain will be laid out the way you would see it at a tournament (so we won’t be covering the entire board in terrain or anything).
- I am very, very, very busy right now with LVO prep and Mega Mat logistics, etc. So, you have to schedule the game by emailing me and be flexible in timing, please: Contact@FrontlineGaming.org
So there you go! You think Nids have what it takes? Prove it. I would love to eat crow on this.
So, who thinks they’ve got what it takes? I have a feeling that like with Escalation, when everyone was saying the Reveneant wasn’t really as bad as we made it sound, and I through out the challenge then, no one but JY2 was willing to take the challenge! I hope more people accept this one instead of just talking big. =)
bring your nids with you to the LVO and I will challenge you to a game. Hell it can even be a challenge match to get on the team
I doubt I will have time at the LVO. We are so insanely busy at these things, we hardly even sleep. However, if you are there Thursday night, that might work but I can’t promise anything as there will be a million X-factors that will need to be dealt with on the fly.
Ha ha, nice one. I’d love to see someone take you up on it! I haven’t looked at the book closely but if it truly is so underpowered it makes so little sense; the ‘nids are arguably the greatest threat to the galaxy, and will probably devour everything and everyone. Since they have no access to allies to represent their singular threat, you’d think they be the most overpowered army, and that in order to have a chance against them you’d need to have some desperate alliances. You know?
Yeah I know, right? Now a few Grots with slingshots could stop them dead in their tracks!
I’d try it out just for the challenge but the trip from the UK would be somewhat more than the potential prize!
There must be a combo to roll over Orks or Blood Angels?
Yeah, besides eternal glory and bragging rights? Not worth the trip! haha.
I assume people will call me out with BA, Orks and Crons (my cron list is very weak, but fun). That is fine with me! I want to lose this bet but I don’t think it will happen.
Reece, every list I’ve seen people put forward all I can see is how my 5e Nids would have torn it apart. :/
I know people are loving on Mawlocs, but without Swarmy on the table, and HC not giving +1 to reserves, I saw my buddy’s Mawloc not make it on the table until turn 3 and it missed and DIED bahahahahah…*cry* Even then 140pts for a s6 ap2 large blast (that hits the same spot twice) that *might* hit every other turn? I don’t see how anyone lets it do TftD twice. Plus if you come up and hit something that’s T or has multiple wounds there is a real good chance you misshap (maybe you want it to and gamble on ongoing reserves??? hope you sacrificed to the dice gods).
Plus I think there are way better Heavies, Biovores are flippin money with the much better miss and spore mine drift rules. Exocrines seem solid (fire magnets for sure) and barebones TFexes are hard as nails for the points.
Sorry I’m rambling, I’ve spent all day working on lists and arguing passionately about my beloved bugs.
Mawlocs randomness sucks for competitive games. I think most people who think they are great play mostly beer and pretzels games rather than anything like a multi round competitive tournament where random swings kill you
and deep striking from “ongoing reserves” seems to be limited to only models that must deep strike (drop pods).
GW needs to clarify.
I agree with you on all counts. Biovores, Exocrine and T-Fex are sweet. Mawlocs can be good but they will realistically only make 3 attacks in a game if they live and don’t scatter, etc. And poor, poor, poor, Swarmy. He used to be my hero, now he is a chump.
Actually, about Mawlocs, if they mishap, on a 4+ they’ll get to do their damage again the next turn. On a 2-3 it’ll get placed somewhere and shot to pieces, which would have probably happened if it didn’t mishap… Really, it’s only a roll of a 1 that sucks.
Combine Mawlocs with the Deathleaper, and that can get really irritating really fast.
It’s too bad that with single Biovore you want to miss! I wish it was D3 spores per shot instead of for the whole volley, it makes taking full broods less tempting. That said, nothing prevents the spores from charging the turn they’re placed, so Biovores really got immensely better.
Yeah, Biovores are fantastic! Really already a great unit that got better.
Deathleaper+Mawlocs is pretty good, but again, he is a T4 creature with 3 wounds. Tactical Marines will beat his ass. He won’t last in a fight.
I keep hearing about this mawloc/lictor or deathleaper combo. I’m assuming we are talking about not deviating when they deep strike. I don’t see this working often. The range of pheremone trail 6″ & what idiot isn’t gonna see that coming & move his squads far enough away render it ineffective?
Exactly, and Deathleaper is really squishy. T4 with 3 wounds and a 5+ is not much to count on.
I live in Seattle but I’ll take the challenge. I even go so far as to say I’ll write a list and one of your guys can play it.
Hey Im going to the TSHFT next weekend maybe ill see you there
Won’t be there, I drew the short straw and am staying behind to watch the shop.
I might be going to TSHFT as well. I’m from Vancouver BC. I’m the giant ginger who plays aqua marine Dark Eldar. Maybe I’ll see you there.
P.s. also going to the Vegas Open 🙂
Frankie will be there! Whip on his backside!
I think the new book is weak but ill gladly take you up on that just for the fun of a good game and I’m an awesome player that. Plus im stuck with this weak ass army for the Las Vegas open so I guess I need to make the best of it that I can. I’ll be coming up with the rest of a commission for you guys either late this week or first of next week. I’ll be in touch to schedule itand will bring my army. Green bugs are better than purple bugs
The allies matrix is broken. Nids do not have access to allies and you shouldn’t to for the challenge. No Taudar. Don’t tell me ‘to bad it’s part of the game’. So to is Escalation and a Stronghold assault, but those are quickly banned. No allies for this challenge.
We’re trying to replicate a common tournament environment. I have never seen a tournament (yet) that allows Escalation or that bans allies. That wouldn’t be a very telling experiment if it isn’t how people actually play the game.
I hate to say this, but maybe try it with three fully-powered shield generators. Might change everyone’s tune on the majority of the Stronghold Assault book if it works. Plus, it would give you a use for your spore pods.
My sPod could become a Void Shield Generator, brilliant! haha, I like that.
I’d thought about doing this with a Battlewagon full assault list as well. It would be worth 300 points to just say “No thank you” to any incoming fire in turn 1 and then assault in turn 2 after weathering 1 turn of enemy fire instead of two turns. Or just sit and turtle for two turns, THEN drive forward.
I don’t mind a codex being underpowered or weak, but its just so bland. They didn’t just nerf the units, they nerved the fluff and they nerved the flavour. I know the 5th ed book wasn’t great, but it was fun! Parasite, Ymgarls, the Doom, Spods, the Deathleapers 5-6 special rules, they weren’t massively OP (maybe Doom), but they were fluffy and fun.
Its a really, really strange codex, every single piece of freaking artwork has spore pods in it and loads of units have ‘bulky’ or ‘very bulky’ in their profiles. And theres all these little fluff boxes popping up every now and again to remind you of the fun units you’re missing out on such as the Doom or Ymgarls. Really hoping these guys end up in supplements or something.
I like the way they try to implement a core mechanic into every army to add some flavour and special rules but in this codex the core mechanic is a massive handicap.
Exactly. Their core rule mechanic is shit. It hurts you! Haha, WTF? So, Tau get uber-overwatch, Eldar get to run and shoot, but Nids punch themselves in the dick if mama-bug leaves them alone for a minute. How does that make sense at all?
Hey Reece, if you want to be fair, they get fearless and shadow in the warp. I’m not saying it’s good compared to other dexs, but just saying the bad part of the tyranid special rule seems like you are no longer looking at it from a objective point of view…
(I am a tyranid player by the way and was looking forward to the new book, so I am also a sad panda 🙁
I agree that it’s pretty bland & boring. I was really hoping they’d go back towards 2nd ed like they have been with other things. The second ed codex was so fun & flexible with many different biomorph options, similar to what demons have with gifts, to represent the Hive Mind evolving its forces to fight different opponents in different conditions. It’s still the best & IMO most balanced codex made for nids(in 2nd ed, crazy!). This codex is just bland & boring, reminds me of the 5th ed chaos codex the way all the character of the army has been stripped out.
Make sure you get a video of these games. I’d like to see if it’s just bad rolls or truly the list that wins.
After getting my hands on the book this weekend, disappointed is too big an understatement. A lot of stuff got points reductions, but for what the models do, they are still overpriced. Carnifex is one of my favorite kits, but they will never ever see the table again. Old One Eye, is out done at being Old One Eye by the new Haruspex?
The spore mine changes were good, but the biovores became less useful in broods of more than 1. No matter how many biovores, you always place a d3 spore mines? So 3 biovores can produce 1 mine. On the flip side, 1 biovore(or harpy) can produce 3.
Yeah, you said it. We will play loads of games to try and make it work but I am not confident.
This is epic Reece. Fuggin sweet.
Let’s see if anyone takes up the gauntlet!
Can’t wait to see this. I hope the challengers make you use Eldar, its been forever since you’ve used em in a bat-rep.
That would be a bloody, bloody game. Footdar actually struggle with Nids, IME. It seems like they wouldn’t but those games for me have always been a bloodbath.
If you read the entry for Hive Commander it says that a unit from the Hive Tyrants detachment may outflank, so mayhaps there will indeed be an FAQ providing Self Allies in the near future…
Agree on the Mawlocks, they seem to be great at first glance but I think the money shot is the T-Fex this time around. Priced well below a Landraider it will make an amazing line breaker.
2 of these backed up by 3 Carni’s (1 Dakka, 2 CC w/Screamer Killer Loadout).
Toss a couple VT’s to ensure this units arrival…
How sweet is the ability to mix and match gaunt weapons!? Squad of 30 Termies 20 borers and 10 Devilgaunts to toss out some dakka. Let all the regulars eat it on the way in.
On the note of Gaunts maybe that’s the place to toss a Prime, surround him with gaunts to keep your Synapse bubble around…
I think Zoans are a good choice, brotherhood seems bad but the point drop is nice…
I’m looking forward to a game hopefully this week (Wed/Thurs) to give some of my half assed theories a go…
I agree, T-Fexes I believe are the big winner. Mawlocs not being able to burrow turn 1 (again, why?) is pretty lame. Mixed Gant weapons is awesome, I agree, Zoans got worse but they are Synapse. Biovores are awesome now (auto-includes for me before!). There is some good stuff in here, but it is few and far between. I wish you could still take armored shell on a Tyrant, a walking Dakka-Tyrant would have been nice…too bad they got ride of the preferred enemy bubble. =(
Yeah, maybe they are setting up the possibility of a supplement to ally bugs with themselves.
The big pain is gonna be even more reliance on Synapse. It’ll be like the old necron fade out. Kill the synapse creatures & the entire army just falls apart. Even worse that most synapse creatures are either gone or nerfed or remain crap(except the flyrant & trygon prime). My favorite nerf weirdness is raveners can’t get adrenal/toxin, but hive guard can & they swapped -1 BS for +1 WS. Are they intending for HG to be combat units?
Exactly. It’s only a negative! It really doesn’t do squat to help you out.
Bingo, 2-3 Data slate/ PDF codex expansions for Hive fleets.
I sincerely hope that helps.
My working theory is that this book is an elaborate troll. How else to explain all the instances of “bulky” and “very bulky” and all the little reminders about the units that were removed. Perhaps once GW has had their fun with us we’ll get them added back in via FAQ…
yeah lol. They love taunting us about the vanishing spore pods don’t they?
The red terror can eat things that are not very bulky or extremely bulky. Maybe that is why?
Trolldex, for sure.
one day reece, I will make it out to cali…one day…..
I look forward to it!
I’m gonna have to take you up on this after the LVO Reece, since i can only really game on weekends. ( And i need a couple new models ).
For sure! We’ll have a fun game no matter the outcome!
I will crush your taudar dreams!
Bring it on, son! Muahaha!
Too bad you’re waaaay out in Cali, Reece – I’d love to challenge you on this (with you playing your taudar even) but I’m in Minnesota! Truth be told, I also think the Nid codex is weak, but I’d certainly like to give it a try. I’ve played nids for a while, and won the Bugeater with em’ – I’m really hoping they aren’t dead on arrival.
Me and Brad (Hulksmash) have been talking it over, and think it might have one or two viable builds – but that’s about it.
Lemme know if you wanna wait til Adepticon – I’ll still be down to try at that point, haha!
Hey Matt, yeah, a trip from MN is a bit much! haha
I don’t think the book is totally useless, I think like you and Brad, that there will be a few good builds. I am just disappointed with how bad the book is from a design point of view. Bad units got worse, the core mechanics of the army hurt the army, etc. It is so disappointing.
But for sure, let’s give it a go at Adepticon! Maybe I will play my Nids just to be contrary! haha
Thoughts on the genestealer pinning from infiltration? It seems like you could tie down the backfield and make your way towards the targets you need to hit.
It’s worth a try!
Reece, I challenge your Taudar with my Ice Nids. Not going to be able to come up and see you before veags however. If you want to play a game in vegas at any point, let me know.
Atta boy! If I have time to play I will, but honestly, probably won’t.
So, By “Beat me with our Taudar Army” Does that mean If I am playing your Taudar army and win i get 100$ If so then easiest 100$ EVER
Reece,
Just curious. I’m starting to hear more and more about how people are actually returning this ‘codex’ for a refund. As a store owner, what are you seeing? My opinion, if enough people stopped drinking the Kool-Aid and the ‘codex’ tanks, maybe we’d see the very first revision of a new codex in record time. Because the only language GW cares about are bottom line color. Expect one hell of a dataslate ‘giving back’ is my prediction. Probably along with ‘misprints’.
We’ve had some people that wanted to cancel their orders but we’d already shipped them out.
As soon as I get my copy of the codex from you guys Reece i’ll take a look at it and offer up what I can see. I have an idea of the list i’d run I just need to number crunch it to see what it all comes out too. Looking forward to reading it as it fits my favourite “underdog” play style!
Dude, this is the under, under dog! Haha, but props to anyone who brings them out.
So here’s the only list that could possibly win… and it would win by failing to get past round 3!!! Ha!
3X30 gargoyles
6X30 termagaunts
2 Primes
1 Trygon Prime
2 Zoanthropes
Oh, and yes, that’s right… I’m going to roll one dice at a time and perfectly space out the models 2″ apart. LOL
Yeah, that doesn’t look like fun to play. Plus, honestly, you may not be able to fit that many Gargoyles in your deployment zone! haha
Here’s the email I recently sent to GW:
——————————————-
Greetings,
I wanted to write in to voice my deep disappointment of the new Tyranid Codex. I am not at all the type of person who writes in complaining, so this is a bit unprecedented for me. However, in this instance, I could not help but get in touch, as I feel like I’ve been sold a product that is embarrassing.
I do not understand why a business of the stature of GW would produce a work that so painfully disadvantages people who have invested, or will invest, in their line of Tyranid models. Regardless of whether or not someone is a tournament player or a more casual player, the idea is to create balance, thereby providing both players with a fair fighting chance. This is the path towards enjoyment. Close games are far more exciting.
That being said, it is not at all entertaining to simply walk across a board and scoop up one’s models. It is a poor business strategy, and one would think that you would want to sell models. But as it stands, I not only wish I had my money back for the codex, but wouldn’t dare purchase another Tyranid model.
As someone who really does enjoy the hobby, and as one who does enjoy playing at tournaments, I ask that you quit trying to turn a quick profit and produce material that is both strategically imaginative (like the Tau and Grey Knight codex) and balanced (good options available to players). Perhaps I am naive, but I cannot help but think that well written products will yield greater revenues in the long run. A happy community equals greater profits, after all.
In this vein, I would encourage you to more seriously consider the input of the tournament community. In many ways, they champion your product. They know your product, in terms of game-play, better than the GW design team. They really do care.
It’s just a thought.
If you’re open to input, I’d be happy to put my effort where my mouth is at.
Thank you for your time,
Austin Brown
That was very professional and I think it got the point across well. I think that was cool that you took the initiative to do that.
I’m sorely tempted to accept this offer… fly to Tampa for a whipping! 😉
If I were rich, I would! haha
Reece I’ll take you on
Bring it!
Do I hear a challenge?
Just got done playing against Spam Adam’s Triptide Tau. That was a very good experience. Be on the lookout for my battle report coming out soon (perhaps as early as tomorrow).
Ok, Reece, I’ll take you on with my bugs when you aren’t as busy. Bring any army you want. Hive Fleet Pandora backs down to no one. 😉
Fair enough, it’s on!
Reece, can I submit a list and you play it? I have some ideas. . .
We can try, it is tough though as often we don’t have all of the specific models.
I’d take that bet. Against your Taudar. Big bug lists are out, the new tyranid meta is the swarm.
You can’t kill them all or move them off objectives and you’re going to have a hard time activating your psychic powers in the shadow of the warp.
tyranid Prime, Norn crown
flyrant
zoanthrope
zoanthrope
30 gaunts
30 gaunts
30 gaunts
30 gaunts
30 gaunts
30 gaunts
30 gargoyles
30 gargoyles
30 gargoyles
bastion
That’s 270 models, 180 of them are scoring, 90 of them deep striking so you have precious few turns to kill them and they’ll be landing on the objectives. Fearless bugs will tie all your units in close combat and eventually you’d fight your way out, but not before turn 7
That list looks pretty solid, actually. A Drake list blasts you off of objectives, but sheer board control and numbers is your ally. I don’t think that army would be fun to play though, and certainly not paint! If you actually had that army (and could fit it in a deployment zone, I have trouble with just 30 Gargoyles) it would be fun to try just for the Spectacle of it!
4 Synapse bugs? Your gaunts will end up doing more damage to themselves than the opposing army, no?
The problem is the stupid Synapse bugs largely suck ass. They’re a tax =(
Against taudar.
180 hormagaunts
venonthropes 2 units
unit of zoenthropes
full biovores in hs
not sure on hq, either flyrants or primes
gargoyles if points are left.
rapid all in bum rush, it would be a very tough game if nids go 1st
The book still stinks of csm-helldrakes, or deamons without the grim.
Yup. I think the horde will work, Frankie came to the same conclusion, but who wants to play a horde army that doesn’t actually kill anything, you know? Sounds like a chore, to me.
You can just mail me the check.
Hahaha, I admire your confidence, sir!
That picture is awesome lol
Where are all my little Hulkamaniacs at?! haha
I’m play testing a list, I’ll email it soon
Greetings, Reecius! I’m down in San Jose, play Nids, and would like to accept your challenge.
Seeing as I’m a few hours away, I hope, if you decide a day, I can make it up there. My availability is pretty good right now! Lemme know.
Nice! How about during the week, this week?
Hows Thursday, Friday or Saturday? I was going to play test Thursday night at Game Kastle, but I’ll hoof it up north for a go at the man himself. I’m open.
Thursday would be best, Friday and Saturday get crazy.
Haven’t got the book in front of me but how’s about a list with (Sad face) nothing exciting.
Two Tyranid Primes each in units of three Carnifexs (maybe dakka). Three more Carnifexs to hop into if one unit gets smashed. Then butt load of Gaunts n Gargoyles to whatever points limit is playing, maybe a Mawloc.
Dull as anything but at least Synapse should hold while the wave slowly moves towards the enemy guns like something from WWI meets Geiger ripoffs.