I’ve had a few test games with the list I posted about here last week, and now I am giving an update on how it has been performing.
The list was a lot of fun to play and the synergy of the Terminators and Calgar was great fun. After some testing and fine tuning, this is the list I was running last:
Calgar
Dark Angels Libby: Lv2, Power Field
Deathwing Termies x 6: Hammers x 5, Assault Cannon
Sternguard x 8, Drop Pod
Tactical Marines x 10: Flamer
Rhino
Tactical Marines x 10: Flamer
Rhino
Dark Angels Scouts x 5: Snipers
Devastators x 7: M.Launchers x 4
Thunderfire Cannon
Whirlwind
Well, the list was fun, had a lot of synergy and played largely very well. Deathwing came down turn 1 and opened up with a Twin Linked Assault Cannon. Calgar came down in a pod, unleashed the Orbital Bombardment and then joined the Deathwing for a turn 2 assault in the backfield. The Libby buffed my backfield shooting units and protected them with the Power Field Generator. Tacticals and Scouts took objectives.
It was working fine and then I played triple Riptide/triple Broadside team Taudar and just got smashed into the dirt. The army simply lacked the punch and durability to handle that type of offensive punch. As General Akbar said, we weren’t prepared to repel firepower of that magnitude!
So, back to the old drawing board.
The concept is sound and I feel that it is still a really solid army that is also very fun to play but in a truly competitive environment I am going to get owned. You need more bodies, straight up. I needed enough troopers to cross the field and get into combat with the Riptides and Wave Serpents to drop them. Further, you need to be able to keep heat off of the backfield shooting units so they can kill the enemy scoring units.
So, I am considering a White Scars list that doesn’t play the way you may think!
I am considering bringing back something I really thought was dead: Power Fist Sarges. Why? They give you great tools to kill the two top dogs at the moment: Tau and Eldar, and, they aren’t bad against a lot of the Daemon shenanigans you see currently. As those are the three most popular tournament lists, followed by Chaos (whom it is actually a detriment against in a lot of chases, but we’ll get to that) it may not be a bad idea. Here’s why:
Tactical Marines can handle almost all Tau units and Wave Serpents in combat and do pretty dang well against Eldar scoring units too, such as Wraithguard, Dires and especially Guardians. Eldar swing first anyway, so who cares if the Fist slows you down in a challenge? Plus, it is great for smashing Serpents and War Walkers to bits.
Against the common Tau units that can actually give you trouble in a fight (suits), the Fist is a huge advantage. It insta-gibs Crsis and Broadsides, and it should reliably put a wound or two on a Riptide, which with a little luck, can win you the combat resulting in running the big bastard down!
Both Tau and Eldar units don’t have Sarge upgrades to challenge him out of combat so that helps a ton, too. Daemons, the other common army out there right now, is hit or miss. The Greater Daemons will certainly smash the ole Fist Wielding sarge in a challenge, which sucks, but a lot of the units of troops and infantry don’t have a Character in them so challenge you out and many of them are multi-wound, T4 (Khorne Dogs and Fiends) whom will fear that Fist. Heralds can be a good or bad thing. A lot of folks are taking Heralds of Tzeentch, who are wimps in a fight and will get insta-killed by the first but Slaneesh and Khrone…not so much.
Chaos though, due to the good old Champion of Chaos rule, will always be challenging! So, it really just depends on what the other model is equipped with and what type of model it is (a Cultist Champ will annoyingly kill your Sarge before he swings every now and then but it should be rare) and as such, the Fist can be a boon or bane.
Long story short, I think the meta has shifted to a point where the increased offense and leadership the Vet Sarge with Fist adds to massed Tactical Squads may in fact be a good choice again.
Pile 60 of them into Rhinos, take Khan to give them Scouts and then of course the amazing Hit and Run from White Scars Chapter Tactics and you have a slippery, hard hitting, resilient core of scoring units that also applies a ton of pressure turn 1. You also get Hit and Run to get out of crummy combats which helps a ton and that is the reason I say White Scars over Raven Guard. Here’s the list I want to try:
| White Scars | 1750 Pts | ||
| Unit | Description | Size | Cost |
| HQ | |||
| Khan | Moondrakken | 1 | 150 |
| Command Squad | Bikes, Grav Guns x 5 | 5 | 210 |
| Troops | |||
| Tactical Marines | Flamer, Vet, P.Fist | 10 | 180 |
| Rhino | 1 | 35 | |
| Tactical Marines | Flamer, Vet, P.Fist | 10 | 180 |
| Rhino | 1 | 35 | |
| Tactical Marines | Flamer, Vet, P.Fist | 10 | 180 |
| Rhino | 1 | 35 | |
| Tactical Marines | Flamer, Vet, P.Fist | 10 | 180 |
| Rhino | 1 | 35 | |
| Tactical Marines | Flamer, Vet, P.Fist | 10 | 180 |
| Rhino | 1 | 35 | |
| Tactical Marines | Flamer, Vet, P.Fist | 10 | 180 |
| Rhino | 1 | 35 | |
| Elites | |||
| Fast Attack | |||
| Heavy Support | |||
| Thunderfire Cannon | 1 | 100 | |
| Fortifications | |||
| Totals | 73 | 1750 |
So you have a ton of bodies, and with scout moves you are on the other player double tapping with massed firepower turn 1, charging en masse turn 2. Against the armies you see a lot now, that is going to be pretty deadly. Plus, against Daemons, you Tank Shock units into Flamer formation and let them have it.
The list is weak against Fliers, obviously, but with the fact that you will often be in assault turn 1 or 2, that should help to mitigate it a great deal.
The second list I was considering was going an altogether different direction.
| Black Templars | 1750 Pts | ||
| Unit | Description | Size | Cost |
| HQ | |||
| Chapter Master | Bike, Hammer, Shield Eternal, Hammer, Artificer | 1 | 250 |
| Troops | |||
| Crusader Squad | Plasma Gun, L.Cannon | 5 | 105 |
| Crusader Squad | Plasma Gun, L.Cannon | 5 | 105 |
| Crusader Squad | Plasma Gun, L.Cannon | 5 | 105 |
| Crusader Squad | Plasma Gun, L.Cannon | 5 | 105 |
| Crusader Squad | Plasma Gun, L.Cannon | 5 | 105 |
| Crusader Squad | Flamer, Initiates x 10, | 20 | 285 |
| Neophytes x 10, P.Axe, Sword Brother, P.Maul | |||
| Elites | |||
| Fast Attack | |||
| Storm Talon | Skyhammer | 1 | 125 |
| Storm Talon | Skyhammer | 1 | 125 |
| Storm Talon | Skyhammer | 1 | 125 |
| Heavy Support | |||
| Thunderfire Cannon | 1 | 100 | |
| Thunderfire Cannon | 1 | 100 | |
| Thunderfire Cannon | 1 | 100 | |
| Fortifications | |||
| Totals | 52 | 1735 |
Black Templars can still, for some reason, field 5 man Las/Plas squads. They’re still extremely points efficient, but they are not as good as they were in 4th ed when they seriously drove people nuts.
However, a core of scoring units that packs high strength, AP2 fire power for very few points is solid.
BTs also give you inbuilt Psyker defense which is a big boon in the current meta. Crusader helps when you need to hustle onto an objective late game or for running down high initiative targets in combat. Their bonuses to challenges means that a CM for the BTs hits like a freight train and building out a large Crusader squad to get you up-field and that can take an objective from most targets, is a reliable unit. Thunderfires in the backfield to give all of your shooting units a defensive buff and to blast infantry and light tanks to bits and a trio of Storm Talons to clear the skies (particularly of Turkeys) and punish ground targets is a combo that makes a lot of sense.
I will try both lists and see how I enjoy them. What do you all think?